- TheLagerLad
- Exchange Beer Snob
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- From: Bucks County, PA
- Registered: 1/29/2015
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Re: War
Europe has some very difficult choices ahead of it.....
......As I explained back in January, after the last outrage in Paris, although France has very competent security services, among the best in Europe at countering terrorism, the number of potential jihadists is now so vast that no intelligence agency can reliably track and deter them all. Time and again, suspects on watch-lists go missing. In real life, unlike the movies, intelligence is never perfect.
Unless Paris is willing to contemplate harsher measures, such as the internment of potential jihadists, known Islamist radicals, we should expect more attacks. There is democratic precedent for this. In October 1970, Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, a liberal icon, declared martial law, deployed the army in the streets, and rounded up nearly 500 extremists, thereby crushing the nascent terror threat in Quebec. Bleeding hearts objected but Trudeau’s famous response, “go on and bleed,” was telling – and he won.
If Hollande has the gumption to do something similar, France can still turn the tide against the jihadists and save many lives. “We know who they are, we usually know where they are,” explained a French counterterrorism official, an old friend, to me in the hours after the Paris attacks: “But will Paris let the gloves come off now? I don’t know.
I think you're going to see a lot of different United States of America over the next three, four, or eight years. - President Donald J. Trump
- Goose
- Cogito ergo sum
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Re: War
That was an interesting read, Lager. Thanks.
Difficult choices indeed. I think that both Europe and the United States are in danger of facing a future in which large crowds of civilians will be periodically murdered in the greatest cities in the world.
I will not accept that future. Europe and the US cannot quietly descend into that darkness.
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
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Thread Starter- Tarnation
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Re: War
My spiritual leader is second-generation from a family of Lebanese immigrants.
He told me this morning that the ISIS/ISIL sorts are not at all like the Muslims he knew in the old country. "They do not worship God--at least not our God---they worship violence."
Very strong action that might shock the consciences of many is the only way instill fear in these fanatics. Think of the successful tactics of Vlad the Impaler or General Pershing in the Philipines They were gruesome, but they worked. They kept the forebeares of ISIS at bay for many decades afterward.
Life is an Orthros.
- Just Fred
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Re: War
I understand, Tarnation, but how do you instill fear in someone who is willing and/or bent on blowing themselves up after or during their mission?
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Re: War
Fred, what would you do and how would you accomplish it?
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
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Thread Starter- Goose
- Cogito ergo sum
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Re: War
Rongone wrote:
"If a coalition is going to be formed, the West will form it and we will lead it. We will need to commit a large land force to defeat ISIS on the ground. Arab forces will be part of the coalition, contributing troops and intelligence. But, as usual, the US will do the heavy lifting while they hold our coats."
Wow! Where have I heard that strategy before? Vietnam Nam, Iraqi Freedom, Shock & Awe . . . Hey, they all worked out fine. We're going to have to rely on intelligence from Arab troops . . . Like to identify who the bad guys are today. If those Arab countries don't step up to the plate to fight for their own countries, let ISIS swallow them up. Then, at least, we can fight a more strategic war against a group that actually has a defined territory to defend. I'm tired of seeing people send off that 1% of "American heroes" into a vicious war and not support them when they come home.
"It will be expensive, dirty, and disappointing in many ways.
But, it's the price you pay."
Yeah . . . It's the price a small minority of our society pays . . . As long as it doesn't affect me personally.
Since you quoted my words in this post, I can only assume that your words are addressed to me.
Just so you know, I opposed the 2003 invasion of Iraq. I opposed the Bombing in the Balkans. I opposed the commitment of troops to Syria two years ago.
And, I have been a generous supporter of the Wounded Warrior project, and Soldier On (Which helps homeless vets in our area.). I've written my representatives to express my outrage at the VA scandals.
As for that last comment.
Do you have any evidence that I support policies "as long as they don't effect me personally"?
Heck, I'm probably going to support Hilary Clinton in 2016 and she's promised to raise my taxes.
Just sayin'
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
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Thread Starter- Tarnation
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Re: War
Fred,
Read what Pershing did. I'll give you a spoiler alert: His troops had rounded up a large group of Muslim guerrillas (terrorists). All but one were executed and buried in a pit with pigs and pig excrement (considered "unclean" by Muslims--and thus denying them paradise). The one who was not executed was released so that he could go and tell his fellow guerrillas what had happened.
There were no more Muslim attacks.
Life is an Orthros.
- Goose
- Cogito ergo sum
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Re: War
They have decided to wage war against us.
War is unpleasant.
"War is cruelty, there is no refining it".
Wage war cruelly. Until they lose the stomach for it.
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
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Thread Starter- Just Fred
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Re: War
Fred,
Read what Pershing did. I'll give you a spoiler alert: His troops had rounded up a large group of Muslim guerrillas (terrorists). All but one were executed and buried in a pit with pigs and pig excrement (considered "unclean" by Muslims--and thus denying them paradise). The one who was not executed was released so that he could go and tell his fellow guerrillas what had happened.
There were no more Muslim attacks.
Well, that's a solution, I guess, but I'm not sure it would work on these guys. I suspect we are dealing with a different breed here, Tarnation.
Last edited by Just Fred (11/15/2015 8:09 pm)
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Re: War
ISIS is a hydra.
One head is the "Caliphate". It occupies territory. has a self described capital. Attack it; destroy it.
Another head are the foreign killers who have returned to Western countries. Use law enforcement and intelligence to seek them out, and destroy them. Use whatever means necessary. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus.
Another head are the enablers, the gun runners, the radical imans. Seek them out.
Another head is the rampant dysfunction, corruption, and violence prevalent in arab countries.
Another head is radical Islam.
Nobody said it was going to be easy.
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
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Thread Starter