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Paul Krugman writes a piece rejoicing in Democrats moving leftward. Standard stuff.
But, look what he says (in bold) about independents.
What say you independents? Are you really in the bag for one party or the other, or merely confused?
Democrats Being Democrats
JUNE 15, 2015
Paul Krugman
On Friday, House Democrats shocked almost everyone by rejecting key provisions needed to complete the Trans-Pacific Partnership, an agreement the White House wants but much of the party doesn’t. On Saturday Hillary Clinton formally began her campaign for president, and surprised most observers with an unapologetically liberal and populist speech.
These are, of course, related events. The Democratic Party is becoming more assertive about its traditional values, a point driven home by Mrs. Clinton’s decision to speak on Roosevelt Island. You could say that Democrats are moving left. But the story is more complicated and interesting than this simple statement can convey.
You see, ever since Ronald Reagan’s election in 1980, Democrats have been on the ideological defensive. Even when they won elections they seemed afraid to endorse clearly progressive positions, eager to demonstrate their centrism by supporting policies like cuts to Social Security that their base hated. But that era appears to be over. Why?
Part of the answer is that Democrats, despite defeats in midterm elections, believe — rightly or wrongly — that the political wind is at their backs. Growing ethnic diversity is producing what should be a more favorable electorate; growing tolerance is turning social issues, once a source of Republican strength, into a Democratic advantage instead. Reagan was elected by a nation in which half the public still disapproved of interracial marriage; Mrs. Clinton is running to lead a nation in which 60 percent support same-sex marriage.
At the same time, Democrats seem finally to have taken on board something political scientists have been telling us for years: adopting “centrist” positions in an attempt to attract swing voters is a mug’s game, because such voters don’t exist. Most supposed independents are in fact strongly aligned with one party or the other, and the handful who aren’t are mainly just confused. So you might as well take a stand for what you believe in.
But the party’s change isn’t just about politics, it’s also about policy.
On one side, the success of Obamacare and related policies — millions covered for substantially less than expected, surprisingly effective cost control for Medicare — have helped to inoculate the party against blanket assertions that government programs never work. And on the other side, the Davos Democrats who used to be a powerful force arguing against progressive policies have lost much of their credibility.
I’m referring to the kind of people — many, though not all, from Wall Street — who go to lots of international meetings where they assure each other that prosperity is all about competing in the global economy, and that this means supporting trade agreements and cutting social spending. Such people have influence in part because of their campaign contributions, but also because of the belief that they really know how the world works.
As it turns out, however, they don’t. In the 1990s the purported wise men blithely assured us that we had nothing to fear from financial deregulation; we did. After crisis struck, thanks in large part to that very deregulation, they warned us that we should be very afraid of bond investors, who would punish America for its budget deficits; they didn’t. So why believe them when they insist that we must approve an unpopular trade deal?
And this loss of credibility means that if Mrs. Clinton makes it to the White House she’ll govern very differently from the way her husband did in the 1990s.
As I said, you can describe all of this as a move to the left, but there’s more to it than that — and it’s not at all symmetric to the Republican move right. Democrats are adopting ideas that work and rejecting ideas that don’t, whereas Republicans are doing the opposite.
And no, I’m not being unfair. Obamacare, which was once a conservative idea, is working better than even supporters expected; so Democrats are committed to defending its achievements, while Republicans are more fanatical than ever in their efforts to destroy it. Modestly higher taxes on the wealthy haven’t hurt the economy, while promises that tax cuts will have magical effects have proved disastrously wrong; so Democrats have become more comfortable with a modest tax-and-spend agenda, while Republicans are more firmly in the grip of tax-cutting cranks than ever. And so on down the line.
Of course, changes in ideology matter only to the extent that they can influence policy. And while the electoral odds probably favor Mrs. Clinton, and Democrats could retake the Senate, they have very little chance of retaking the House. So changes in the Democratic Party may take a while to change America as a whole. But something important is happening, and in the long run it will matter a great deal.
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When your choice is reduced to one of the two parties, you are left out of the primary process due to closed elections, and the entire elective process is stacked against anyone outside the two established parties, I guess his statement is kind of correct.
If choices weren't limited and truly open elections were the norm, I think his statement would have to be revised.
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I think there is too much thought and too much in the way of writing and analysis done on so-called independents.
I would argue that unless you are actively participating in a campaign, donating your money to a party or a candidate, or are otherwise heavily involved in electoral politics, you're pretty much an independent right until you step into the voting booth and choose your representation.
I mean, I consider myself an independent. And I think at this point in my life what that means is that I am open to any candidate for office who wil represent my interests the best. But a look at my voting record over the past 20 years would show that I've voted for Dems probably 3 to 1 over Republicans. But in the last 5 years, it's probably been closer to 50-50 with an edge remaining towards the Dems. So am I a Democrat, or an independent?
Honestly, who cares?! For me, I like the fact that I am not married to a particular party or ideology. Life doesn't exist in a vacumm. Fact change. New things are learned. Personal situations change.
I do think a person's core beliefs should remain intact and becuase of that, I don't think I could ever get behind today's Republican party, but that's not to say a candidate can't come along who calls himself a conservative, but shows a gravitas towards the major issues of the day that I could align myself with.
The bottom line for me is that I wish fewer people would align themselves with parties and political orthodoxy and instead pay close attention to the candiates.
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Most supposed independents are in fact strongly aligned with one party or the other, and the handful who aren’t are mainly just confused. So you might as well take a stand for what you believe in.
Ok, I'm an independent and will remain unaffiliated. I have my reasons:
1. When one joins a 'team', there is a feeling you must root for other members of the team even if you know nothing about them. For example, in a political race in West Undershirt, Nebraska, you cheer for the person whose team you've joined. You know nothing about either candidate, and even though the other team might have a better choice, you automatically assume your team's candidate has to be better, because you 'hate' the other team.
2. I believe independency frees one to examine and/or take a stand on an issue without the feeling you are being disloyal. For example, Democrats might feel the need to support Obama's position on TPP or the Republican position on healthcare, even if in your heart you think TPP is a bad idea and you favor a medicare-for-all health insurance system.
3. As an independent, you don't get bombarded with flyers, emails, and solicitations from a team.
4. Independents tend to look at policies and issues more objectively and tend not to become 'single-issue' voters.
Finally, if we were all independents, candidates would be forced to address issues and policies upfront without the comfort of knowing a certain percentage of voters will pull the lever for the entire team simply because they are members of that team.
Political affiliation is beginning to divide us as a nation rather than bring us together, especially over the last couple of decades.
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More and more people IMHO are Independent. It does not have to do so much with if you are registered as an Independent versus how you assess candidates. IF you would vote EITHER way, then at least to me you are an Independent. Because of how primaries work in PA, I AM registered with one of the major party organizations, but that does NOT at all tie me to just looking at their candidate or voting that way.
As far as the article itself goes, it just rather reminded me of one of Krugman's normal pieces. While some of what he says I can get behind there also are other pieces of the article that really do not seem accurate in their assessment.
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Just Fred wrote:
Most supposed independents are in fact strongly aligned with one party or the other, and the handful who aren’t are mainly just confused. So you might as well take a stand for what you believe in.
Ok, I'm an independent and will remain unaffiliated. I have my reasons:
1. When one joins a 'team', there is a feeling you must root for other members of the team even if you know nothing about them. For example, in a political race in West Undershirt, Nebraska, you cheer for the person whose team you've joined. You know nothing about either candidate, and even though the other team might have a better choice, you automatically assume your team's candidate has to be better, because you 'hate' the other team.
2. I believe independency frees one to examine and/or take a stand on an issue without the feeling you are being disloyal. For example, Democrats might feel the need to support Obama's position on TPP or the Republican position on healthcare, even if in your heart you think TPP is a bad idea and you favor a medicare-for-all health insurance system.
3. As an independent, you don't get bombarded with flyers, emails, and solicitations from a team.
4. Independents tend to look at policies and issues more objectively and tend not to become 'single-issue' voters.
Finally, if we were all independents, candidates would be forced to address issues and policies upfront without the comfort of knowing a certain percentage of voters will pull the lever for the entire team simply because they are members of that team.
Political affiliation is beginning to divide us as a nation rather than bring us together, especially over the last couple of decades.
Well said.
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I'll offer a few thoughts on independents. Some of it I've preached before, so please be patient.
First, I think that while it may give you a warm feeling to be above the party fray, Rongone raises a point. As long as indepedents are locked out of most primaries, you simply arrive at election day facing a choice between two major party candidates that have been chosen for you, or a host of minor write-ins. In other words, you haven't done a thing to upset party dominance.
Secondly, with the exception of Lager, I meet very few independents who I would classify as swing voters. In the past I have equated being "independent" as the equivalent of occupying the political center. I have begun to question that opinion. Most of the self described independents I encounter on the internet are either to the left of the democrat mainstream, or to the right of the republican establishment. That is far different from being nonaligned, or "in the middle".
Think of it. Visualize a Bernie Sanders "independent" supporter. While I could see him voting for Hillary Clinton, voting for a republican candidate seems unconceivable. That's not a criticism. It is an observation.
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Visualize a Bernie Sanders "independent" supporter.
That would be me.
While I could see him voting for Hillary Clinton, voting for a republican candidate seems unconceivable.
If they offered an Eisenhower-type Republican, I'd go that way over Hillary Clinton. Right now, look what they are throwing out there.
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Just Fred wrote:
Visualize a Bernie Sanders "independent" supporter.
That would be me.
While I could see him voting for Hillary Clinton, voting for a republican candidate seems unconceivable.
If they offered an Eisenhower-type Republican, I'd go that way over Hillary Clinton. Right now, look what they are throwing out there.
IF the Republican party could find someone like Eisenhower, I doubt that the GOP establishment would support him !
Last edited by tennyson (6/16/2015 9:19 am)