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2/08/2015 7:02 am  #1


My Problem With the President's remarks

Obama then.
 

Last edited by Goose (3/06/2016 5:37 am)


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

2/08/2015 7:48 am  #2


Re: My Problem With the President's remarks

Great article, and fine introductory comments.

I'll have a lot more later on, but initial reactions:

IF the "moral equivilancy" of Jihad = Crusades is valid (it is not, but let's pretend); then consider that the Crusades were in response to aggression against Europe and the capture of holy sites in Jerusalem.

When have Christians in the past century pushed against Islamic territory and/or captured holy sites in the Arabian peninsula?

Also, the excesses of the Crusades were denounced by the Papacy.  Until the burning of the Jordanian pilot the excesses of Jihadism had been met with silence from the Imans.

When it comes to the condemnation of ISIS the Iman of the Grand Mosque spoke with greater clarity and moral authority than did the POTUS. 

I need to head out to church.....


Life is an Orthros.
 

2/08/2015 9:35 am  #3


Re: My Problem With the President's remarks

You're right, he could have used more timely references:  Like bombing women's health clinics, or gunning down doctors in churches, or amending constitutions to abuse those that christians do not approve of.

All religion is fanatacism.  It's just a question of degree.


If you make yourself miserable trying to make others happy that means everyone is miserable.

-Me again

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2/08/2015 10:45 am  #4


Re: My Problem With the President's remarks

Isn't it strange how the great monotheistic religions of the world stemming from the one true god of Abraham became competitive rather than collaborative, combative rather than cooperative, and warring rather than peace seeking?

What happened?

The imperfection of man, despite his creation as a vision of God. Man has chosen to adhere to and abide by selfish interpretations of the divine word. The human bastardization of religious teachings are the cause of more violent deaths at the hands of other humans than any other cause in our history.

Last edited by Rongone (2/08/2015 12:58 pm)

 

2/08/2015 11:51 am  #5


Re: My Problem With the President's remarks

Rongone wrote:

Isn't it strange how the great monotheistic religions of the world stemming from the one true god of Abraham became competitive rather than collaborative, combative rather than cooperative, and warring rather than peace seeking?

What happened?

The imperfection of man, despite his creation as a vision of God. Man has chosen to adhere to and abide by selfish interpretations of the Devine word. The human bastardization of religious teachings are the cause of more violent deaths at the hands of other humans than any other cause in our history.

That's about my take, too, rongone.  The more I study religious belief systems the more skeptical I become of organized religion. 
 

Last edited by Just Fred (2/08/2015 11:52 am)

 

2/08/2015 2:51 pm  #6


Re: My Problem With the President's remarks

Conspiracy Theory wrote:

All religion is fanatacism.  It's just a question of degree.

Interesting thought...I've often considered indifference and lukewarmness to be the bane of religion; perhaps because the lukewarm, indifferent, and casual observors predominate in many religions (think "cultural Jew" or "Christmas and Easter" Christians) most people who are even slightly more obervant are perceived as being "tanatics".

Is there such a thing as "fanatical lukewarmness"?
 


Life is an Orthros.
 

2/08/2015 5:14 pm  #7


Re: My Problem With the President's remarks

Tarnation wrote:

Conspiracy Theory wrote:

All religion is fanatacism.  It's just a question of degree.

Interesting thought...I've often considered indifference and lukewarmness to be the bane of religion; perhaps because the lukewarm, indifferent, and casual observors predominate in many religions (think "cultural Jew" or "Christmas and Easter" Christians) most people who are even slightly more obervant are perceived as being "tanatics".

Is there such a thing as "fanatical lukewarmness"?
 

What always floors me is that people will claim the moral high ground on the basis of their beliefs...then erect a gallows on it.

I read the same commandments everyone else did.  I never saw a footnote saying unless you think you have a good enough excuse.

People of all beliefs seem violate the principals of their faith on a regular basis.  

What I don't understand is how they believe they are still alright with their creator.  If your god says "Don't Do It", and you ignore this, can you still expect a reward in the next life?
 

Last edited by Conspiracy Theory (2/08/2015 5:15 pm)


If you make yourself miserable trying to make others happy that means everyone is miserable.

-Me again

---------------------------------------------
 

2/08/2015 7:22 pm  #8


Re: My Problem With the President's remarks

Goose wrote:

Secondly, the narrative is incomplete to the point of being misleading. The crusades are not the only chapter in the story of Islamo-christian conflict. If the christains were the bad guys in the crusades, and I would agree that they were, one has to know that the Muslims have given as good as they got.

For instance, the Ottomans destroyed the Byzantine empire, destroying 1100 years of Christain culture in Asia Minor.....

In any event, I think it's pointless to selectively present the past searching for the "good guys".

Actually the final fall of Hagia Sophia did not occur until the mid 15th century but I'm not going to quible about a few centuries ;-)

Seriously, the fall of Byzantium is an excellent illustration of the "no good guys" premise as the already weakened empire was dealt a mortal blow by the Western Crusaders. The Ottomans just finished the job...a few centuries later.

Last edited by Goose (2/08/2015 7:26 pm)


Life is an Orthros.
 

2/08/2015 7:32 pm  #9


Re: My Problem With the President's remarks

Conspiracy Theory wrote:

What always floors me is that people will claim the moral high ground on the basis of their beliefs...then erect a gallows on it.

I read the same commandments everyone else did.  I never saw a footnote saying unless you think you have a good enough excuse.

Or a footnote unless you've acquired great economic and political power..

It often seems to me that religion is at its best, truest to its core principles, when it is persecuted and "underground".

When it becomes legitimized and begins to amass wealth and leverage power, look out.

One tragic aspect of the wheel of history is that yesterday's oppressed usually become tomorrow's oppressors.


Life is an Orthros.
 

2/10/2015 12:48 pm  #10


Re: My Problem With the President's remarks

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too.  ~Voltaire

Last edited by IntroVertigo (2/19/2015 8:00 am)


Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too.  ~Voltaire
 

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