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2/05/2015 6:12 am  #1


"The Science Far from Settled"

"The science is far from settled"

[size=100]     I dunno, Exchangers. From Climate change, to vaccines, to evolution, this seems to be the catch phrase of a "denialist" movement.
The problem is, many times the science is settled. Just sayin'



Rand Paul Is Linked to Doctors’ Group That Supports Vaccination Challenges[/size]


WASHINGTON — Back in 2009, when Rand Paul was pursuing his long-shot bid to win Kentucky’s Republican Senate primary, he spoke to a small physicians’ association that has publicized discredited medical theories, including possible links between vaccines and autism and between abortion and an increased risk of breast cancer.

At the time, Mr. Paul, an ophthalmologist, was no stranger to the group, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. He boasted at its annual meeting that he had been a member for more than two decades and that he relied on its research, statistics and views about the role of government in medicine.

“I am not a newcomer to AAPS,” Mr. Paul said, referring to the group.

On Monday, Mr. Paul helped set off an uproar when he said amid a national measles outbreak that parents should be allowed to decide whether their children needed to be vaccinated, and that he had heard from parents whose children had suffered “profound mental disorders” after being vaccinated.

In doing so, he was echoing the views of the head of the association, which has also lobbied in recent years for state laws permitting parents to opt out of mandatory inoculation programs based on their beliefs.

On Tuesday, Mr. Paul sought to clarify those comments, inviting a New York Times reporter to accompany him to the Capitol physician’s office to watch him receive a hepatitis A booster vaccination. During the visit, Mr. Paul said he believed that the science was definitive on the matter and that vaccines were not harmful.

“It just annoys me that I’m being characterized as someone who’s against vaccines,” he said as he rolled up his T-shirt sleeve before the shot. “That’s not what I said. I said I’ve heard of people who’ve had vaccines, and they see a temporal association and they believe that.”

His attempt to push back against the perception that he puts his libertarian politics ahead of his better medical judgment reflected the difficult balance the senator is trying to strike: To appeal to the kind of voters he needs for a likely White House bid next year — those who do not typically vote Republican — he cannot afford to promote views that seem out of the mainstream.

But Mr. Paul and the physicians’ association share a libertarian philosophy and deep skepticism about government involvement in medical care that often plays out in public health debates.

This is about channeling ideals of freedom, personal choice and liberty, even if you put the community in peril in the process,” said Dr. Arthur L. Caplan, an expert in medical ethics at NYU Langone Medical Center.

Dr. Jane Orient, the executive director of AAPS, which is based in Tucson, said that she believed the science behind vaccination risks was far from settled and that hundreds of parents had reported that their children had had severe deficits after an inoculation.

“We have a lot of observations that are not otherwise explainable,” said Dr. Orient, an internist. “I don’t think we can dismiss it out of hand.”

That puts the group at odds with mainstream medical organizations such as the American Medical Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics, which say that only children with certain medical conditions that may put them at greater risk for complications should be permitted to skip inoculations.

The AAPS stance on childhood vaccines is not its only controversial one. Its periodical, The Journal of the American Physicians and Surgeons, has published reports suggesting a link between abortions and higher rates of breast cancer, an idea rejected by an expert panel of the National Cancer Institute. Another report contended that illegal immigrants brought disease into the country and benefited if their babies were born with disabilities.

The association’s agenda opposes government intervention in medical practice and argues that patients have the right to choose their treatments,Dr. Caplan said. “They are basically libertarians in white coats,” he said.

Dr. Orient said Mr. Paul’s membership in the group had lapsed around the time he was elected to Congress. But the lawmaker has not been shy about promoting the organization’s work.

In an interview with Fox News in 2010, he lauded the organization’s tradition of fighting government intrusion into medicine, such as suing to stop the Clinton administration’s overhaul efforts in the 1990s and opposing the Affordable Care Act.

He suggested that the association was expanding fast enough to rival the mainstream physicians’ group, the American Medical Association, which he said was out of step with doctors nationwide.

“The A.M.A. has been struggling for years, and they do not represent doctors across the country,” he said. “And AAPS has been growing dramatically as doctors who want to fight against big government join together under a different banner. The A.M.A. doesn’t represent me. I’ve never been a member.”

As recently as the summer of 2012, Mr. Paul was featured as a speaker at a teleconference town hall that the association hosted on the subject of Medicare reimbursement for doctors.

The group has also provided the senator with modest contributions to his campaign, including $3,000 to his Senate candidacy in 2010.A spokesman for Mr. Paul, Brian Darling, said that the senator’s association with the group should not be taken to mean that he reflexively backed its agenda.

“He agreed with the group when they opposed Obamacare, but I can’t imagine he supports every position they’ve ever taken,” Mr. Darling said.

The association, which was formed in 1943 and has about 3,000 dues-paying members, has taken on issues beyond traditional medical topics. More than a decade ago, the group unsuccessfully urged the United States Supreme Court to release post-mortem photographs of a former Clinton administration official, Vincent Foster, arguing that they were needed to make certain that Mr. Foster, whose death was attributed to suicide, had not been murdered.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/05/us/politics/rand-paul-linked-to-association-of-american-physicians-and-surgeons.html?hpw&rref=politics&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well

Last edited by Goose (2/05/2015 6:18 am)


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

2/05/2015 7:52 am  #2


Re: "The Science Far from Settled"

Dr. Jane Orient of AAPS says: "we have a lot of observations that are not otherwise explainable".

Observations ? ! ?

Whatever happened to the scientific method, medical testing & trials, peer certified studies, and decades of successful vaccination virtually eliminating disease?

I don't think I'll be making an appointment with Dr. Orient for a health check up any time soon.

 

2/05/2015 8:16 am  #3


Re: "The Science Far from Settled"

Man, are these guys in Washington in a time warp, or is this just pandering?

Vaccines are child's play in simplicity in comparison to climate change. The science is conclusive. Vaccinations for diseases such as measles are very effective and safe. The evidence is there. They are one of the greatest breakthrus of history.

I am interested in why this "the science isn't settled" phrase has suddenly become popular.
In my opinion, it is an attempt to muddy the waters.They seem to put it out there as if everything is just hanging inuncertainty.
 Saying that a scientific issue is not settled in every detail is NOT the same as saying that we don't know anything. But, some conflate the two.

Last edited by Goose (2/05/2015 8:17 am)


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
     Thread Starter
 

2/05/2015 9:03 am  #4


Re: "The Science Far from Settled"

There was a NPR story on yesterday about vaccines and they used a different term. They didn't use the term "science is settled" but something to the effect of "universally accepted" or "universally conclusive". I like that term better because to me it means that a lot of people have looked at the science around vaccinations, and the overwhelming majority of people who know about this stuff are in agreement that vaccinations do far more good than bad, and beyod that, there is almost no bad. 

I like that terminology better because when we say something is settled, I think it discourages people for looking deeper into the world around us. The human race is constantly evolving and everyday, something changes in our environment, whether it be environmental, biological, chemical, what have you, that should challenge our doctors, scientists, and researchers to gain further knowledge.

One other thought around looking to Congress or the political world when discussing science-y stuff:

When my daughter was born and we took her for her first vaccinations, I grilled our pediatrician at the time pretty good about vaccinations. I asked all the questions I had, most of which were drawn out of ignorance, and he schooled me pretty good on how the vaccines are made and what goes into him, but more importantly, the risks I would put my kid in if we didn't vaccinate.

And that's all I needed. 

And the important thing here is that I went to a doctor to ask these questions. I didn't go to a politician, or a celebrity, or anyone else who wasn't a doctor. 

A politicans #1 job isn't to understand science, or the medical world, or anything else other than how to get elected, to be quite honest. I wish the media would stop asking them about it because in terms TV presence, a polished politician will always come off as more authorative than some doctor, who actually knows stuff, but isn't the communicator that your're typical wannabe presidential candidate is.

 


I think you're going to see a lot of different United States of America over the next three, four, or eight years. - President Donald J. Trump
 

2/05/2015 9:13 am  #5


Re: "The Science Far from Settled"

Great post Lager.
I wish that people would get their medical information from their doctors rather than politicians or some pretty lady on the View.

I guess that common sense really isn't that common


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
     Thread Starter
 

2/05/2015 9:29 am  #6


Re: "The Science Far from Settled"

Goose wrote:

Great post Lager.
I wish that people would get their medical information from their doctors rather than politicians or some pretty lady on the View.

I guess that common sense really isn't that common

And this is why I have such a massive distrust of the majority of our media these days. Even something like your basic network nightly newscast. I'll pick on ABC for a minute.

You watch their stories on the vaccine controversy. It goes something like this....

Anchor guy: Tonight, a controversey brewing in the political world about vaccines

(go to videotape)

Gov Christie: Vaccines blah blah parents shoud have a choice

Rand Paul: Forcing vaccines on kids is anti-freedom....I've heard kids get autism, blah, blah, freedom.

Random B-roll of kids getting shots and a 5 second clip of a doctor saying vaccinations are good.

Hillary Clinton tweeted something


2 minutes later, back to the anchor desk

Anchor: With us to discuss this is our medical specialist Dr. Rahman Stethoscope. What do you think about this, Doctor?

Doctor: I think vaccinations are necessary.

Anchor: Thank doctor. Up next.......




 


I think you're going to see a lot of different United States of America over the next three, four, or eight years. - President Donald J. Trump
 

2/05/2015 12:58 pm  #7


Re: "The Science Far from Settled"

Right.  And, the fact this whole vaccination thing is listed under the heading "politics" should tell us something.  Geez-o-man.
 

Last edited by Goose (2/05/2015 4:20 pm)

 

2/05/2015 4:21 pm  #8


Re: "The Science Far from Settled"

Great observation, Fred.
Spot on.


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
     Thread Starter
 

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