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9/01/2016 5:24 am  #1


"We didn’t discuss payment"

"We didn’t discuss payment of the wall"
Donald Trump, discussing his meeting with the President of Mexico.

I don't get it. THE signature issue of the Trump presidential campaign has been that he will build a wall on the Mexican border AND make Mexico pay for it. He has been saying this for 15 months. He said it again last night.
"We will build a great wall along the southern border, And Mexico will pay for the wall."

OK. So, Trump travels to Mexico and meets with the president of Mexico,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and, he doesn't even bring it up?
Seriously? Did he choke?

Maybe the great negotiator plans to spring it on the Mexican President at a later date. You know, seizing the advantage of secrecy and surprise. Yea, that must be it.

Small problem, Donald. I've been to Mexico many times.
They have TVs down there.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/01/trump-doubles-down-on-impenetrable-physical-wall-during-immigration-speech.html


Payaso 

Last edited by Goose (9/01/2016 6:45 am)


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

9/01/2016 8:33 am  #2


Re: "We didn’t discuss payment"

I ended up watching Trump's big immigration "policy" speech last night.

What a huge pile of garbage. There was no concrete policy, no indication that as President, Trump would be able to work with congress to implement anything he suggested, and completely contrary to what he said just a couple of days ago.

Look, I don't think I am smart enough to tell anyone who to vote for. But for the love of God, if you are considering voting for Trump, please don't. The guy is a snake and a scumbag, with no moral or ethical center. He has no honor, no compassion, no empathy. 


I think you're going to see a lot of different United States of America over the next three, four, or eight years. - President Donald J. Trump
 

9/01/2016 9:00 am  #3


Re: "We didn’t discuss payment"

According to Fox "news" AKA the Drumpf Propaganda Network, Donald's trip south of the border was a HUUUUGE success that highlighted his tremendous knowledge of international affairs, his negotiating skills with other heads of state, and "he appeared very presidential".

According to most other observers, his foray into Mexico was pretty much a dud. Especially because his shaky press conference with Mexico's president Nieto that he later blew apart in his immigration policy speech in Phoenix. In that speech he went back to his bluster about building the wall, Mexico paying for the wall, 'extreme screening' process, kicking out 12 million illegal immigrants, blah, blah, blah, with lots of shouting and denigration of Hillary.

Here's an article from Reuters that demonstrates the feeling of the vast majority concerning Drumpf's invasion of Mexico.


Mexico president blasts Trump's policies as 'huge threat' after meeting

By Dave Graham

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexico's president rebuked Donald Trump as a threat to his country just hours after painting a positive picture of talks the two held on Wednesday to try to defuse tensions over the U.S. presidential hopeful's anti-Mexican campaign rhetoric.

President Enrique Pena Nieto had on Wednesday afternoon hailed as "open and constructive" the impromptu meeting he held with Trump, who later referred to the Mexican leader as his friend and a "wonderful" president.

But in a late evening television interview, an angry-looking Pena Nieto sought to defend himself against a broad swathe of criticism for his decision to invite the Republican candidate despite his repeated verbal attacks on Mexico.

"His policy stances could represent a huge threat to Mexico, and I am not prepared to keep my arms crossed and do nothing," Pena Nieto said. "That risk, that threat, must be confronted. I told him that is not the way to build a mutually beneficial relationship for both nations."

Trump's quick acceptance of an invitation sent last Friday took Mexico's government by surprise, and his visit to Mexico City came just hours ahead of a keynote speech on immigration as he sought to close the gap on Democratic rival Hillary Clinton.

The real estate mogul's accusations that Mexico sends rapists and drug runners to the United States, and his threats to build a border wall and tear up trade deals, have angered the government but his meeting with Pena Nieto on Wednesday gave him a chance to present himself in a more moderate light.

He spoke of Mexican-Americans in glowing terms and stressed the areas of common interest between the two countries even as he stuck to his message that he would put up the wall.

Pena Nieto had likened Trump to dictators Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini earlier this year. But his government said Trump understood its concerns at the meeting, making Pena Nieto's tense appearance on television the more surprising.

"What we saw was a respectful attitude and discourse from Donald Trump," presidential spokesman Eduardo Sanchez had said earlier, arguing that progress was made on the issue of trade after prior threats by Trump to tear up the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

"I think there was an advance in general," he added.

Still, Trump laid out a series of tough policies to tackle illegal immigration when he delivered his speech in Phoenix, Arizona, on Wednesday night.

He told a cheering crowd that Mexico would pay for the wall "100 percent" and that if he wins the election anyone living illegally in the United States would be sent back to their home country and made to apply for re-entry.

That would include millions of Mexicans.

Opposition politicians in Mexico rounded on Pena Nieto for hosting Trump.

"Instead of making him apologize, the government allowed (Trump) to complete the humiliation of the Mexicans," Ricardo Anaya, leader of the center-right opposition National Action Party, said on Twitter.

WALL TO WALL

Some Mexican officials also privately expressed reservations about the meeting with one former diplomat saying Pena Nieto had done Trump's campaign a favor.

During a joint news conference after their meeting, Trump said he and Pena Nieto had not discussed his demand that Mexico pay for the border wall.

But Pena Nieto later contradicted Trump, saying he had told the American that Mexico would not foot the bill, and he bristled during his television interview when asked why he had not made that clear at the news conference.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, a Mexican government official said the two men spoke English during the meeting and that Pena Nieto clearly explained to Trump the offense his comments had caused.

"He's a candidate that offended a lot of Mexicans, so that's the chemistry there was (between them)," the official said.

 

9/01/2016 9:15 am  #4


Re: "We didn’t discuss payment"

AP FACT CHECK: Trump on immigration


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Wednesday was supposed to be the day Donald Trump clarified his immigration stance. But in a key speech on that subject, he misstated facts about immigration policy, life for those in the country illegally and their impact on the U.S. economy.

A look at some of his statements in an Arizona rally in the evening and after a meeting earlier in the day with Mexico's president:

___

TRUMP: "President Obama and Hillary Clinton have engaged in gross dereliction of duty by surrendering the safety of the American people to open borders."

THE FACTS: Trump actually praised President Barack Obama in the past for deporting an unprecedented number of people during his first term, a record that does not square with an accusation of supporting an "open" border.

Obama increased Border Patrol staffing to an all-time high of 21,444 agents in 2011 and his administration has virtually ended the practice of "voluntary returns," or turning back Mexicans without any consequences.

Both Obama and Clinton support a more lenient policy than Trump has proposed, but what they lay out is not an open border.

Clinton has promised to extend Obama's actions that would let people brought to the country illegally as children remain in the country, as well as to let some parents of U.S. citizens stay. Both seek legislation that would allow most of the estimated 11 million immigrants in the country illegally to stay if they pass a background check, learn English and pay taxes. However, those who fail the background check or commit crimes would be deported.

___

TRUMP, on people illegally in the U.S.: "They're treated better than our vets."

THE FACTS: People in the country illegally do not have the right to work, vote or receive most government benefits. A modest number have been exempted from deportation because of an Obama administration action but most live under the risk of being removed from the country.

Veterans are guaranteed government health care and because almost all are citizens, the right to vote and other government benefits.

The quality of their care has been criticized by Trump and others but people in the country illegally do not have equivalent rights to health care, except for emergency treatment. Public hospitals are required to provide emergency medical care regardless of immigration status.

___

TRUMP: "When politicians talk about immigration reform they usually mean the following: amnesty, open borders, lower wages ... It should mean improvements to our laws and policies to make life better for American citizens."

THE FACTS: No politician of either party who supports overhauling immigration laws supports "amnesty," but the meaning of "amnesty" varies depending on who is talking.

The sweeping and bipartisan immigration bill that passed the Senate in 2013 was derided by opponents as amnesty, but supporters including GOP Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida disputed that, noting numerous requirements imposed on immigrants in the country illegally along a 13-year path to citizenship, including paying penalties.

The bill proposed spending tens of billions of dollars to double the number of U.S. Border Patrol agents and greatly increase border security. And the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office studied the bill and projected that it would lower wages for the entire workforce slightly over the first 10 years after becoming law, but would then increase wages for the entire workforce by even more, at the same time boosting economic output and increasing the GDP.

___

TRUMP, on the number of people in the U.S. illegally: "Our government has no idea. It could be 3 million, it could be 30 million. They have no idea."

THE FACTS: The government actually has an idea. The Homeland Security Department estimates there are 11.4 million people in the United States illegally. Few in the immigration debate challenge that estimate.

The figure comes from an analysis of the most recent Census Data. The government compares the number of people whom the Census reports as foreign-born with the number of people who have been admitted legally and gained citizenship. The most recent estimate dates to January 2012. It roughly matches the estimates of demographers from the Pew Foundation, which issues its estimates more rapidly than the government.

Experts believe the number of people in the U.S. illegally has been steadily declining as Mexicans and others return to their home country and illegal border crossings dwindle.

___

TRUMP, on ending the practice of releasing people who are caught crossing the border illegally, pending a court appearance: "We are going to end catch-and-release ... Under my administration, anyone who illegally crosses the border will be detained until they are removed out of our country and back to the country from which they came."

THE FACTS: Many of the releases in question were ordered by courts. They were not a policy of the Obama administration.

A federal judge in Los Angeles ruled last year the federal government's detention of children and their mothers who were caught crossing the border illegally violated a 1997 court settlement. In July, an appeals court narrowed the scope, saying children must be quickly released but not their parents. From October through July, 48,311 unaccompanied children were arrested crossing the border from Mexico; many more children were caught with their families.

Many crossing the border illegally claim asylum, which must be adjudicated by an immigration judge. People can claim asylum because they are being persecuted or fear persecution on grounds of race, religion, nationality, membership in a social group or political opinion.

___

TRUMP, on preventing people from overstaying their visas and remaining in the country illegally: "We will finally complete the biometric entry-exit visa tracking system, which we need desperately. For years Congress has required biometric entry-exit visa tracking systems but it has never been completed. The politicians are all talk, no action. Never happens, never happens ... In my administration we will ensure that this system is in place."

THE FACTS: Trump is correct in focusing on visa overstays as a source of much illegal immigration. The biometric system he wants to complete, though, presents enormous logistical, technical and financial challenges, and he gave no details how he would address it differently than his predecessors.

Congress mandated the system first in 1996 and only now has the Obama administration begun implementing it on select flights at nine airports and at a border crossing between San Diego and Tijuana, Mexico.

The scope of the problem is immense - and not one that Trump's proposed border wall could fix.

The U.S. admits more than 45 million people annually on tourist, student and work visas. The government says 99 percent of them leave when required. But 1 percent overstay their visas, and that's more than 450,000 people annually.

___

TRUMP, after meeting Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto: "I shared my strong view that NAFTA has been a far greater benefit to Mexico than it has been to the United States and that it must be improved upon. ... I expressed that ... we must take action to stem this tremendous outflow of jobs from our country. It's happening every day, it's getting worse and worse and worse, and we have to stop it."

THE FACTS: The loss of manufacturing jobs is generally attributed to China, not Mexico.

Some U.S. companies have moved jobs to Mexico — the Carrier Corp. recently decided to relocate an air conditioning factory there from Indiana. But there is little data to show that the trend is getting "worse and worse."

No reliable annual measures exist of job flows between the U.S. and Mexico. The United States hemorrhaged manufacturing jobs from 2000 to 2010, when more than 5.5 million were lost, but most economists blame the emergence of China as a manufacturing powerhouse and the increasing automation of many factories.

Recently, manufacturing has done a bit better: Since 2010, U.S. manufacturing jobs have increased by about 900,000. And many economists credit NAFTA with helping the U.S. auto industry by providing a cheap source of parts that otherwise might have been sourced in China. A report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research argued that imports of subsidized U.S. agricultural products put as many as 2 million Mexican farmers out of work. And since NAFTA's implementation in 1994, Mexico has grown more slowly than many of its Latin American counterparts.

___

TRUMP: "We didn't discuss that. We didn't discuss who pays for the wall, we didn't discuss." ... "We did discuss the wall. We didn't discuss payment of the wall. That'll be for a later date."

PENA NIETO on Twitter, in Spanish: "At the beginning of the conversation with Donald Trump I made it clear that Mexico will not pay for the wall."

THE FACTS: The facts may depend on what your definition of a discussion is. If the Mexican president opened with a comment that his country won't pay for the wall and Trump did not respond to it, that may not have been a discussion in his mind. But the subject, it seems, came up. The Trump campaign's brief statement on the meeting did not quibble with Pena Nieto's account. It said the meeting "was not a negotiation."


___

 

9/01/2016 12:06 pm  #5


Re: "We didn’t discuss payment"

Trump 2015

“Mexico is not our friend”
”I want nothing to do with Mexico other than to build an impenetrable WALL and stop them from ripping off U.S.”

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. "



Trump Yesterday

“I happen to have a tremendous feeling for Mexican-Americans not only in terms of friendships, but in terms of the tremendous numbers that I employ in the United States and they are amazing people, amazing people. I have many friends, so many friends and so many friends coming to Mexico and in Mexico. I am proud to say how many people I employ. And the United States first, second and third generation Mexicans are just beyond reproach. Spectacular, spectacular hard-working people. I have such great respect for them and their strong values of family, faith and community.”

This is from that straight-talking, honest guy.

Last edited by Goose (9/01/2016 12:07 pm)


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
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