Just Fred wrote:

Wouldn't support anyone who wanted to bust up unions, or as I like to call it, democracy in the workplace and the ability to collectively bargain.

I think you will find there are a great number of people that do not consider unions democracy in the workplace. I am not questioning you right to do so, but believe that there is a lot of sentiment that runs against the unions. I have been on both sides of the equation and from where I stand it is not all good or bad. 


 

TheLagerLad wrote:

Just Fred wrote:

Wouldn't support anyone who wanted to bust up unions, or as I like to call it, democracy in the workplace and the ability to collectively bargain.

The counter argument to that is presidents don't bust up unions. And in states where governments have fought the unions, the fights have largely been against union government employees where both parties have traded benefits for votes for decades. Only now are we seeing the promises made over a generation are not sustainable. There is no denying this.

I support unions and frankly think think there are areas where we need stronger unions, or unions period (retail/fast food) vs. other areas (government and legacy manufacturing) need to realize what they are up against in terms of the math. 

We in York area have seen our share of union disputes. Some worked out very badly for the employees. 

I agree with Lager that there are areas where employees could really use some sort of collective group as they are really being taken advantage of and conversely we see situations where the unions have fostered a group that are getting way too much for what their positions should command. It is truly a mixed bag and some things really do need to be done in certain areas as some things are just not sustainable long term and in certain areas it falls back on the general public to face the burden of what politicians have promised (many times in concert with their own benefits). 

Just Fred wrote:

I'll just say this regarding unionization in the workplace:  Unions aren't good or bad ....... they are necessary.

I don't think you meant that unions should be required in most or all workplaces as at least for me the bulk of the places I worked were not unionized. Each worker was free to negotiate for his or her wages based upon their own value to the company. In general that meant that the highest producers were compensated best. For most businesses that is the way at least in my mind it should work. 

I will say when I was young I worked in a union shop and I made double the wage that I would have made in the same job in a non-union shop which there was one in our area. In that sense it really made a difference for me in being able to get through college with the money I made there. On the downside basically after I was there for a couple of months and had my union card I was making the same as everyone else even people there for many, many years. There was really no compelling reason to excel and in certain cases they did not like it if you did something that another union worker was classed to do. So I guess I saw good and bad. 

In an ideal world unions should not be needed as each person should work and be rewarded on their own merit. But, as we all know, we do not live and work in an ideal world. 

Let's not kid ourselves either, unions have become just as political as anything we see in Washington (and in some cases much worse).  
 

Last edited by tennyson (3/04/2016 10:19 pm)