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1 - tennyson
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Tim Cook: Apple will fight 'chilling' court order to 'hack our own use
Very interesting cast on couple of fronts
1) just the legal authority of the federal government to be able to do this
2) how the company will be perceived about NOT complying in THIS PARTICULAR case since there is a lot of focus right not on terrorism from Islamic fundamentalists
3) what customer reaction will be in terms of buying from Apple depending on what they wind of doing one way or the other.
"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
- Common Sense
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Re: Tim Cook: Apple will fight 'chilling' court order to 'hack our own use
February 16, 2016
A Message to Our Customers
The United States government has demanded that Apple take an unprecedented step which threatens the security of our customers. We oppose this order, which has implications far beyond the legal case at hand. This moment calls for public discussion, and we want our customers and people around the country to understand what is at stake.
Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession.The FBI may use different words to describe this tool, but make no mistake: Building a version of iOS that bypasses security in this way would undeniably create a backdoor. And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control.
Read the full statement here:
Last edited by Common Sense (2/17/2016 9:41 am)
“We hold these truths to be self-evident,” former vice president Biden said during a campaign event in Texas on Monday. "All men and women created by — you know, you know, the thing.”
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Re: Tim Cook: Apple will fight 'chilling' court order to 'hack our own use
At the very least Congress should be involved with this issue not the FBI deciding what they want.
The government wants Apple to hack their own customers. The only reason we are at this point is because the government has shown it's self to be untrustworthy. I support Apple with their decision. Once a "back door" is invented it will fall into the wrong hands.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident,” former vice president Biden said during a campaign event in Texas on Monday. "All men and women created by — you know, you know, the thing.”
- TheLagerLad
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Re: Tim Cook: Apple will fight 'chilling' court order to 'hack our own use
I give Cook and team Apple credit for their stance and the clear explanation that doing what the government wants them to do is neither a simple or clean endeavor.
To be clear, this is a tricky issue. Could there be something on Farook's phone that could lead us to other potential terrorists? Possibly. But is the government's interest in one criminal worth giving them the technology to unlock any phone of any individual without probable cause. And as Apple rightly points out, if they were to build the technology to decrypt their operating system, it would assuredly leak out and get into the wrong hands. And when we as a society put crucial information on our phone (think of those sorta funny Turbo Tax commercials out right now), the general public needs to know that there data is the strongest security possible on their device.
I think you're going to see a lot of different United States of America over the next three, four, or eight years. - President Donald J. Trump
- tennyson
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Re: Tim Cook: Apple will fight 'chilling' court order to 'hack our own use
I suspect that Apple could if it wanted hand over a decrypted phone back to the FBI if it so desired and NOT provide anything past that which would help the authorities in their search for connections to other people and groups. That would NOT mean that they are handing over a decryption scheme to the government itself. Should they do this ? That is the question. Like I said there are a number of factors to consider by Apple.
We will know more soon about the legal ramifications of this request.
The financial impact to Apple could be a much longer tale.
"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
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Thread Starter- TheLagerLad
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Re: Tim Cook: Apple will fight 'chilling' court order to 'hack our own use
The financial impact to Apple could be a much longer tale.
The financial impact can only be a positive. Let's say Apple agrees to work with the government and give them an decryption tool. Google now has a marketing advantage by telling the smart phone buying public that there isn't a back door to their phones.
Another thing to consider -- There are plenty of applications for your phone that provide even stronger encryption than Apple provides. If you really want to keep your data safe, there are numerous ways to do so without keeping your stuff in the Apple or Google ecosystems.
One final thought -- The Apple/Google/Microsoft saw what happened to AT&T and Verizon when the Snowden stuff leaked. People were furious that those companies would hand over their private information to the goverment. But since everyone has to use the backbone of the internet, which those companies provide, there wasn't much the general public could do.
That's not the case (as much) with the the public's choice of smart phone operating system.
I think you're going to see a lot of different United States of America over the next three, four, or eight years. - President Donald J. Trump
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Re: Tim Cook: Apple will fight 'chilling' court order to 'hack our own use
A good follow up story
Federal Magistrate Orders Apple To Help FBI Hack Its Own Phones . . . Apple Refuses
apple-refuses/#more-97046
Apple has decided to fight an unprecedented and highly controversial order by U.S. Magistrate Judge Sheri Pym that the company has to assist the government in breaking into one of its encrypted phones. Apple says that it does not have the technology and does not want to be part of such an effort to create a privacy stripping tool for the FBI.
Pym seems to believe that she can order companies to become unwilling participants in surveillance research and development. I fail to see her legal basis for such an extraordinary order against a private company. CEO Tim Cook said the order by U.S. Magistrate Judge Sheri Pym “has implications far beyond the legal case at hand”. He said that the company cooperated with the FBI “But now the U.S. government has asked us for something we simply do not have, and something we consider too dangerous to create.
They have asked us to build a backdoor to the iPhone.”Pym has gone far beyond what I consider the scope of her authority. Indeed, her actions appear almost legislative in nature. Congress has not ordered such back door access to be supplied by companies and such a move would raise difficult privacy questions. It would also conflict with some other countries that have balked at the effort of the Obama Administration to strip phones of privacy encryption protections.
The phone in question is tied to Syed Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, killed 14 people in a Dec. 2 shooting at a holiday luncheon for Farook’s co-workers.Adding to Pym’s controversial decision was the fact that Apple was not even allowed to participate in the proceeding on Tuesday. Pym simply ordered the company to give her an estimate of the cost of its involuntary work for the FBI. That misses the point. Pym cannot order companies to become effective partners with the FBI in developing new technology.
Pam’s order raises chilling constitutional questions that should be fully reviewed by a federal district court judge and an appellate court. The implications of this order could be breathtaking for private businesses and citizens in my view. It is worth a public debate over privacy protections and the right of the government to force companies to develop new technology or systems against their will.
Pym is a former prosecutor who was appointed as a United States Magistrate Judge in 2011. She served as an Assistant U.S. Attorney and Chief of the Riverside branch office of the United States Attorney’s Office, doing mostly criminal prosecution work. She graduated with a law degree is from the University of California, Los Angeles School of Law.
Last edited by Common Sense (2/17/2016 12:30 pm)
“We hold these truths to be self-evident,” former vice president Biden said during a campaign event in Texas on Monday. "All men and women created by — you know, you know, the thing.”
- tennyson
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Re: Tim Cook: Apple will fight 'chilling' court order to 'hack our own use
TheLagerLad wrote:
The financial impact to Apple could be a much longer tale.
The financial impact can only be a positive. Let's say Apple agrees to work with the government and give them an decryption tool. Google now has a marketing advantage by telling the smart phone buying public that there isn't a back door to their phones.
Another thing to consider -- There are plenty of applications for your phone that provide even stronger encryption than Apple provides. If you really want to keep your data safe, there are numerous ways to do so without keeping your stuff in the Apple or Google ecosystems.
One final thought -- The Apple/Google/Microsoft saw what happened to AT&T and Verizon when the Snowden stuff leaked. People were furious that those companies would hand over their private information to the goverment. But since everyone has to use the backbone of the internet, which those companies provide, there wasn't much the general public could do.
That's not the case (as much) with the the public's choice of smart phone operating system.
What about the impact if they do not co-operate in ANY way ? The general public really has a paranoia especially about Islamic terrorism and IF they wind up doing nothing to support the effort to gather what information might be there, I was thinking this could hurt them. Like I said, time will tell.
Last edited by tennyson (2/17/2016 12:46 pm)
"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
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Thread Starter- TheLagerLad
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Re: Tim Cook: Apple will fight 'chilling' court order to 'hack our own use
The financial impact to Apple could be a much longer tale.
The financial impact can only be a positive. Let's say Apple agrees to work with the government and give them an decryption tool. Google now has a marketing advantage by telling the smart phone buying public that there isn't a back door to their phones.
Another thing to consider -- There are plenty of applications for your phone that provide even stronger encryption than Apple provides. If you really want to keep your data safe, there are numerous ways to do so without keeping your stuff in the Apple or Google ecosystems.
One final thought -- The Apple/Google/Microsoft saw what happened to AT&T and Verizon when the Snowden stuff leaked. People were furious that those companies would hand over their private information to the goverment. But since everyone has to use the backbone of the internet, which those companies provide, there wasn't much the general public could do.
That's not the case (as much) with the the public's choice of smart phone operating system.
What about the impact if they do not co-operate in ANY way ? The general public really has a paranoia especially about Islamic terrorism and IF they wind up doing nothing to support the effort, I was thinking this could hurt them. Like I said, time will tell.
I think there are a very small set of people of are paranoid or overtly worried about Islamic terrorism. And I think there are even fewer who would consider a iOS hack as the solution to said paranoia.
Let me put it this way.
If the government forced Apple/Google/Microsoft to create backdoors into their phones for national security or law enforcement purposes, I would be 100,000 times more concerned about getting my identity stolen by a Russian or Chinese hacker who got a copy of the software than I would feel relieved that the government had a minor tool (in the overall scope of things) in fighting terror.
I think you're going to see a lot of different United States of America over the next three, four, or eight years. - President Donald J. Trump
- tennyson
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Re: Tim Cook: Apple will fight 'chilling' court order to 'hack our own use
[color=#000000]
The financial impact can only be a positive. Let's say Apple agrees to work with the government and give them an decryption tool. Google now has a marketing advantage by telling the smart phone buying public that there isn't a back door to their phones.
Another thing to consider -- There are plenty of applications for your phone that provide even stronger encryption than Apple provides. If you really want to keep your data safe, there are numerous ways to do so without keeping your stuff in the Apple or Google ecosystems.
One final thought -- The Apple/Google/Microsoft saw what happened to AT&T and Verizon when the Snowden stuff leaked. People were furious that those companies would hand over their private information to the goverment. But since everyone has to use the backbone of the internet, which those companies provide, there wasn't much the general public could do.
That's not the case (as much) with the the public's choice of smart phone operating system.
What about the impact if they do not co-operate in ANY way ? The general public really has a paranoia especially about Islamic terrorism and IF they wind up doing nothing to support the effort, I was thinking this could hurt them. Like I said, time will tell.
I think there are a very small set of people of are paranoid or overtly worried about Islamic terrorism. And I think there are even fewer who would consider a iOS hack as the solution to said paranoia.
Let me put it this way.
If the government forced Apple/Google/Microsoft to create backdoors into their phones for national security or law enforcement purposes, I would be 100,000 times more concerned about getting my identity stolen by a Russian or Chinese hacker who got a copy of the software than I would feel relieved that the government had a minor tool (in the overall scope of things) in fighting terror.
I probably overstated in using "paranoia" (although there certainly are some), but I do believe that a lot of people do want the government to do all it can to track down terrorists (especially when it involves the US) and Apples's refusal to do anything MIGHT hurt them.
I think the perfect solution would be for Apple (assuming it is possible, which I believe IS the case) to just provide the FBI with the information that is on the phone without providing them with a tool to decrypt any phone or device or get around automatically the built in security.
"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
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