The New Exchange

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



12/10/2015 11:15 am  #1


My Fellow Liberals, Don’t Support Obama’s Terror Watch List

More push back on Obama and his phony request about the no-fly list.

My Fellow Liberals, Don’t Support Obama’s Terror Watch List Gun Ban

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/07/my-fellow-liberals-don-t-support-obama-s-terror-watch-list-gun-ban.html

As Americans we understand well how important due process is. No one, for instance, should be thrown in jail just on the say-so of some government official who declares they deserve it. Such is the behavior of tyrants, the Founding Fathers understood, and so we enshrined in our Constitution the right to counsel, the right against being compelled to testify against oneself, the right to trial by jury, etc.

All of these rights are checks to ensure the government can’t simply pluck innocent people out of their lives and strip them of their life, liberty, or property. Only after fairly testing the charges against them can the government punish people with such deprivation.But none of these hurdles must be overcome for the government to put someone on a list, especially not a list like this, which is a watch list. It is a list of people that for whatever reason (a reason that no one outside the government knows) the government has decided deserve closer scrutiny of their actions. 

s the government right to be concerned about these people? Maybe yes, but maybe not, and there is no way for ordinary citizens to know. Which means there is also no way for ordinary citizens to know whether any of them, even people who in no way intend to commit acts of terrorism, are also on that list.In other words, there is no way to know whether you are on that list. Nor is there any way to know how to get off it.

That there is any list at all should give us all pause. It has not historically been the hallmark of a healthy democracy when governments have kept lists of people they didn’t like. It is hard to be a government of the people, by the people, and for the people when the government keeps track of the people, including those dissidents who would challenge it (which is something that in a democracy they are allowed, and even supposed, to do).


 “We hold these truths to be self-evident,”  former vice president Biden said during a campaign event in Texas on Monday. "All men and women created by — you know, you know, the thing.”

 
 

12/10/2015 11:18 am  #2


Re: My Fellow Liberals, Don’t Support Obama’s Terror Watch List

I support barring people on terror watch lists from obtaining firearms.
We have to do this, just until we figure things out.


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

12/10/2015 3:49 pm  #3


Re: My Fellow Liberals, Don’t Support Obama’s Terror Watch List

Ok.  Quiz question:  Would you feel comfortable boarding a plane from, let's say, Paris to New York if 3 passengers were on the terrorism watch list?

 

12/10/2015 4:03 pm  #4


Re: My Fellow Liberals, Don’t Support Obama’s Terror Watch List

I don't get it. We have people supporting a candidate who would bar tens of millions, heck more people from entering the US based upon religion on the belief that there might - might - be a chance that one of them is a terrorist.

But we can't bar a handful of people actually suspected of being dangerous from buying a gun?

Hey, if you are on the list as the result of an error, and it takes a few months to clear it up, you can wait awhile to buy an arsenal of military grade weapons. There won't be a fascist takeover of Washington if you don't vote for Donald Trump.

Last edited by Goose (12/10/2015 4:47 pm)


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

12/10/2015 5:15 pm  #5


Re: My Fellow Liberals, Don’t Support Obama’s Terror Watch List

I'll admit, when I first heard of the proposal to not allow people on the no-fly list to purchase guns, I thought it made perfect sense.

Then when people pointed out all the issues with doing such a thing, like the fact the criteria for being put on the list is unknown, who is on the list is unknown, innocent people have been on the list incorrectly and you can be placed on the list and not have committed any crimes, my opinion quickly changed and I came to the realization this isn't the best criteria to use to limit people's access to guns.

 

12/10/2015 8:24 pm  #6


Re: My Fellow Liberals, Don’t Support Obama’s Terror Watch List

I'll repeat, you are going to board a plane from Paris to New York.  You are told 3 of the 245 passengers are on the terrorism watch list.  Are you boarding the plane? A simple yes or no will do.

You decide to go to the movies next week, and just prior to entering the theater there is an announcement that 3 of the people are on the watch list.  You going in?  A simple yes or no will do.

Answer the same question, but this time it's a church service next Sunday morning.  You going in?  Yes or no.

 

12/10/2015 8:54 pm  #7


Re: My Fellow Liberals, Don’t Support Obama’s Terror Watch List

BB - agree with you 100%.  There is too much secrecy and arbitrary assignment regarding the terror watch list.

Fred - Because of the secrecy, how would you or I or anyone else know just who is or isn't on that list?


Life is an Orthros.
 

12/10/2015 8:59 pm  #8


Re: My Fellow Liberals, Don’t Support Obama’s Terror Watch List

Not only that Tarnation, but you just don't know why they might be on the list and if it is legitimate or not.  As has been mentioned before, there have been issues with people being on the list for no reason whatsoever

Last edited by Brady Bunch (12/10/2015 9:00 pm)

 

12/10/2015 11:42 pm  #9


Re: My Fellow Liberals, Don’t Support Obama’s Terror Watch List

Fred - Because of the secrecy, how would you or I or anyone else know just who is or isn't on that list?

It was a hypothetical question.  I just wanted an answer.  I suppose you would be satisfied to jettison the whole 'watch list' thing and live life without it since you wouldn't know if the list was legitimate or not?  Interesting.
 

Last edited by Just Fred (12/10/2015 11:43 pm)

 

12/11/2015 12:28 am  #10


Re: My Fellow Liberals, Don’t Support Obama’s Terror Watch List

Obama's terror watch list is Nixon's "Enemies List" on steroids.

What was the worst thing that happened to someone on the Nixon list--a tax audit?
 


Life is an Orthros.
 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum