1 of 1- Rongone
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And it’s 1 - 2 - 3 what’re we fighting for
Has anybody else been watching the PBS series on the Vietnam War?
We have been watching it at our house. Having lived through that era and serving in the U.S. Navy during that period, we have found it interesting. Aside from showing both the U.S. and Vietnamese perspectives, the politics, the first hand stories of veterans, and the turmoil created by the war on the civilian population of both countries, both my wife and I have been struck by the parallels of this war and our involvement in the ongoing Mideast conflicts we have entagled our military in for over 16 years.
It demonstrates that we haven’t learned anything and are making the same mistakes on how the combat strategies are employed and how we fight the war, the dependence on inept local forces, our support of corrupt foreign regimes, how our domestic politics and elections override the requirements of our fighting men and women, our lack of understanding of the culture of the people in the foreign countries we invade, and our inability to devise an exit strategy.
Same story, different country, different decade. The series is proving that we haven’t learned anything from our previous mistakes. The past is, indeed, prologue.
- tennyson
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Re: And it’s 1 - 2 - 3 what’re we fighting for
Thanks for the "heads up" about this series. I will have to see if I can catch all of it ON DEMAND.
"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
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Re: And it’s 1 - 2 - 3 what’re we fighting for
For anyone interested, the series CAN be found IF you have Comcast XFINITY using the ON DEMAND. I am only part way through the first broadcast and have learned SO much about the background of Vietnam. It is kind of dumbfounding to understand out ineptitude till you listen to the history much of which I either did not know or had forgotten. Being of that era also, it is profoundly interesting and should be to all whether you lived through it or not.
"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
- Tarnation
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Re: And it’s 1 - 2 - 3 what’re we fighting for
I am from younger end of that era...or error.
I was in high school during the fall of Saigon.
There is a weird sense of deja vu these days; mistakes never really acknowledged, much less repented, notw repeated.
But the critical difference is that at no time in the 50's or 60's did Charlie and the Chicoms fly an airliner into our skyscrapers, or sodomize a U.S. Ambassador, or in any other way make a direct assault on U.S. territory.
The parallel for precipitating our protracted conflict is with the attack on Pearl Harbor, the sinking of the Lusitania, or the sinking of the Maine.
What has happened to our resolve? Those conflicts were extinguished, all of them, in less than five years. The last clear cut American victory was in 1945. Why?
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- Rongone
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Re: And it’s 1 - 2 - 3 what’re we fighting for
A constantly recurring theme that is quite frightening documented in the series is the lack of truthfulness and manipulation of facts and reality by mayors, governors, generals, cabinet officials, political appointees, and elected representatives all the way up to the Vice President and President to suit their own personal and political narratives. This practice occurred over the course of at least 4 different administrations all more concerned with how their actions would reflect on them personally and their legacy. This was all done at the expense of the lives of the Americans in uniform in the war zone, civilians in the U.S., and the civilian population of Vietnam.
The hubris of elected officials in this wartime misinformation campaign was stunning then . . . Just as it is now.
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Thread Starter- Goose
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Re: And it’s 1 - 2 - 3 what’re we fighting for
Tarnation wrote:
I am from younger end of that era...or error.
I was in high school during the fall of Saigon.
There is a weird sense of deja vu these days; mistakes never really acknowledged, much less repented, notw repeated.
But the critical difference is that at no time in the 50's or 60's did Charlie and the Chicoms fly an airliner into our skyscrapers, or sodomize a U.S. Ambassador, or in any other way make a direct assault on U.S. territory.
The parallel for precipitating our protracted conflict is with the attack on Pearl Harbor, the sinking of the Lusitania, or the sinking of the Maine.
What has happened to our resolve? Those conflicts were extinguished, all of them, in less than five years. The last clear cut American victory was in 1945. Why?
That is the million dollar question. I have seen several book length attempts at trying to explain this, and none in my opinion quite get it right.
Perhaps it is a lack of resolve or commitment. The percentage of the population with a direct link to our military is very low.
Perhaps the level of threat has not been perceived to be sufficient to justify total war.
Perhaps WWII is the wrong example. We look at WWII as the example of what a war should be like. But when I look at Vietnam and all of the "Small Wars" in American history, I wonder if WWII was the exception and not the rule.
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
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Re: And it’s 1 - 2 - 3 what’re we fighting for
A constantly recurring theme that is quite frightening documented in the series is the lack of truthfulness and manipulation of facts and reality by mayors, governors, generals, cabinet officials, political appointees, and elected representatives all the way up to the Vice President and President to suit their own personal and political narratives. This practice occurred over the course of at least 4 different administrations all more concerned with how their actions would reflect on them personally and their legacy. This was all done at the expense of the lives of the Americans in uniform in the war zone, civilians in the U.S., and the civilian population of Vietnam.
The hubris of elected officials in this wartime misinformation campaign was stunning then . . . Just as it is now.
Spot on.
"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
- Rongone
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Re: And it’s 1 - 2 - 3 what’re we fighting for
Last night’s episode 9 was more of the same. The audacity of the Nixon administration, with the help of Henry Kissinger and a group that originated from an apparent casting call of Get Smart known as the plumbers to create false narratives, misinformation, and illegal break-ins to destroy the credibility of those that tried to expose the truth about Vietnam to the American Public was stunning. Nixon and his cohorts primary concern was his re-election. The sacrifices of Americans in uniform, the American Public, and the people of Vietnam were totally inconsequential. The selfish attitude and predilection for lies to promote personal desires was done with casual hubris and narcissistic ego boosting. Again, stunningly parallel to what we are encountering today.
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Thread Starter- tennyson
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Re: And it’s 1 - 2 - 3 what’re we fighting for
Last night’s episode 9 was more of the same. The audacity of the Nixon administration, with the help of Henry Kissinger and a group that originated from an apparent casting call of Get Smart known as the plumbers to create false narratives, misinformation, and illegal break-ins to destroy the credibility of those that tried to expose the truth about Vietnam to the American Public was stunning. Nixon and his cohorts primary concern was his re-election. The sacrifices of Americans in uniform, the American Public, and the people of Vietnam were totally inconsequential. The selfish attitude and predilection for lies to promote personal desires was done with casual hubris and narcissistic ego boosting. Again, stunningly parallel to what we are encountering today.
It is truly amazing what is done (and NOT done) because of politics and hubris.
"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
- Rongone
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Re: And it’s 1 - 2 - 3 what’re we fighting for
The final episode was aired last night. Tears welled up in my eyes during the segment on The Wall in WashDC. I couldn’t help myself.
It brought to my mind the song where have all the flowers gone?
Where have all the soldiers gone, long time passing?
Where have all the soldiers gone, long time ago?
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Gone to graveyards, everyone.
Oh, when will they ever learn?
Oh, when will they ever learn?
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