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6/06/2015 6:01 am  #1


Pope Urges Bosnians to Work for Peace, Reconciliation

Pope Urges Bosnians to Work for Peace, Reconciliation
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
JUNE 6, 2015, 6:23 A.M. E.D.T.



SARAJEVO, Bosnia-Herzegovina — Pope Francis urged Bosnia's Muslims, Orthodox and Catholics to put the "barbarity" of war behind them and work together for a peaceful future as he made a one-day visit to Sarajevo on Saturday to encourage reconciliation following the devastating three-way war of the 1990s.

Francis received a joyous welcome from thousands of cheering Bosnians who lined his motorcade route through the mostly Muslim city of 300,000. Another 65,000 people, most of them Catholics, packed the same Sarajevo stadium where St. John Paul II presided over an emotional post-war Mass of reconciliation in 1997.

"War never again!" Francis intoned in his homily, denouncing those who incite war to sell weapons or to deliberately foment tensions among peoples of different cultures. He called on Bosnians to make peace every day — not just preach it — through their "actions, attitudes and acts of kindness, of fraternity, of dialogue, of mercy."

The brilliant sun shining on Saturday's Mass contrasted sharply with the unseasonable April snowstorm that pelted John Paul during his historic 1997 Mass, which marked the first time many Croats had returned to Sarajevo since the war.

Nearly every step of Francis' day was designed to show off interfaith and interethnic harmony in a city once known as "Europe's Jerusalem" for the peaceful coexistence of Christians, Muslims and Jews. The city, though, became synonymous with religious enmity during the 1992-95 conflict that left 100,000 dead and displaced half the population.

Children dressed in traditional folk outfits representing Bosnia's three main religious confessions greeted Francis at the airport, Muslim carpenters crafted the wooden throne he sat on during Mass and a Catholic pigeon breeder provided the white pigeons that Bosnia's three presidents and Francis set free in a sign of peace at the end of their meeting.

"We all need peace and to receive the pope's message," said Alma Mehmedic, a 55-year-old Muslim who waited for a glimpse of Francis outside the presidential palace. "I came today to give love and receive love."

Despite the outward show of harmony, wounds still fester two decades after U.S.-brokered peace accords ended the war. Bosnia's Christian Orthodox Serbs want a breakaway state; Muslim Bosniaks want a unified country; and Roman Catholic Croats want their own autonomous region.

In a speech to Bosnia's three-member presidency, Francis called for Bosnians to oppose the "barbarity" of those who want to continue sowing division "as a pretext for further unspeakable violence." Rather, he urged Bosnians to continue working for respectful coexistence through patient, trustful dialogue.

"This will allow different voices to unite in creating a melody of sublime nobility and beauty, instead of the fanatical cries of hatred," he said.

The Serb chairman of Bosnia's three-member presidency, Mladen Ivanic, welcomed the pontiff by saying Bosnia-Herzegovina is a country of contrasts where "every word echoes much stronger and longer than elsewhere."

"We believe that the times of misunderstandings, intolerance and division are behind us forever, that we have learned our lessons from the past and that new times are ahead of us, times of reason, reconciliation and cooperation," he said.

Security was tight as thousands of police officers stood guard along Francis' motorcade route through the city, which was expecting an influx of an extra 100,000 people. Shops and cafes were closed and residents along the route were told not to open their windows or stand on balconies. But they lined the route in droves and Francis' open-sided car ambled slowly by.

"The pope cannot create jobs for us or improve the political situation in our country, but he can give us hope and strengthen our faith," said Stipe Turalija, a 15-year-old Bosnian Croat.

The 78-year-old Jesuit had a packed schedule, with meetings with government officials, an encounter with priests and nuns from the region, as well as an interfaith gathering and finally a rally with young people.

Francis has said he wants to encourage reconciliation in Bosnia, but also encourage the Catholic Croat community, which represents only about 15 percent of the population — down from more than 17 percent before the war. Muslim Bosniaks account for 40 percent and Orthodox Christian Serbs 31 percent, according to Vatican statistics.

Many Catholics, who carry Croat passports, have left Bosnia to work in the European Union, escaping an unemployment rate that stands at 43 percent and youth unemployment rate of 67 percent.

John Paul had tried to visit Sarajevo during the war, but the trip was called off for security reasons. His willingness to even consider a trip endeared him to a city that felt abandoned and betrayed by the world — sentiments of affection that have been projected onto his successor two decades later.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/06/06/world/europe/ap-eu-rel-bosnia-pope-visit.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

6/06/2015 1:19 pm  #2


Re: Pope Urges Bosnians to Work for Peace, Reconciliation

Goose wrote:

Pope Urges Bosnians to Work for Peace, Reconciliation
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
JUNE 6, 2015, 6:23 A.M. E.D.T.
"War never again!" Francis intoned in his homily, denouncing those who incite war to sell weapons or to deliberately foment tensions among peoples of different cultures. He called on Bosnians to make peace every day — not just preach it — through their "actions, attitudes and acts of kindness, of fraternity, of dialogue, of mercy."

Very timely, as we approach the centennial of American troop involvement in World War One, the outbreak of which was precipitated by the assassination of Austrian Archduke Francis Ferdinand and his wife Sophie in Sarajevo in July of 1914 by a Muslim terrorist.

For the first two years American arms manufcaturers were riding the high tide of prosperity, selling anything to any buyer:  English, German, Russian, made no difference if the cash was in hand.

They had no qualms about shipping their deadly ware on neutral-flagged ships or even passenger vessels.

Until the Germans got the you-know-whats of it and sank the passenger ship Lusitania.


Now we provide arms covertly and sometimes overtly to all sides in Syria and Egypt.

When will we ever learn?

Last edited by Tarnation (6/06/2015 1:19 pm)


Life is an Orthros.
 

6/06/2015 2:11 pm  #3


Re: Pope Urges Bosnians to Work for Peace, Reconciliation

Thanks, Tarnation.
I've been reading a bit lately on the Ottomans, the Balkans, and WWI.
The consequences for the region, and the Arab world are being felt very acutely these days.
It's a shame that our schools do such a bad job at teaching about the period.

WWI gets overshadowed by both the second world war and the American civil war.
As I said, a real shame.


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
     Thread Starter
 

6/06/2015 4:19 pm  #4


Re: Pope Urges Bosnians to Work for Peace, Reconciliation

It's a good message.  A nice dream.  But just a dream.

There will never be peace because everyone is taught to hate.

I honestly can't see where a good and loving deity would allow this to happen.


If you make yourself miserable trying to make others happy that means everyone is miserable.

-Me again

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6/06/2015 6:28 pm  #5


Re: Pope Urges Bosnians to Work for Peace, Reconciliation

Conspiracy Theory wrote:

It's a good message.  A nice dream.  But just a dream.

There will never be peace because everyone is taught to hate.

I honestly can't see where a good and loving deity would allow this to happen.

Thousands of people in a majority muslim city cheering wildly for the Pope, and peace.
Allow yourself some hope.
 


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
     Thread Starter
 

6/06/2015 7:19 pm  #6


Re: Pope Urges Bosnians to Work for Peace, Reconciliation

Not everyone is "taught to hate".

As I have written elsewhere in this section, generation upon generation of Christian martyrs prayed for their tormentors even as they were doing their worst.

The Crusades were an abberation and, frankly, a heresy.


Life is an Orthros.
 

6/07/2015 8:41 am  #7


Re: Pope Urges Bosnians to Work for Peace, Reconciliation

Tarnation wrote:

Not everyone is "taught to hate".

As I have written elsewhere in this section, generation upon generation of Christian martyrs prayed for their tormentors even as they were doing their worst.

The Crusades were an abberation and, frankly, a heresy.

Okay.  Mia Culpa.  That was a broad generalizaton and was unfair to say.

I apologize.

What I was trying to say was all religions clash.  There are theological differences and people tend to think that one way is the right way and everyone else is wrong.

I think I mentioned before that I'm an atheist.  I don't belive in gods.  Of any kind.

I know about religion.  I didn't just reject it out of hand.  I've had some very spirited debates with my friends who are believers.

What I have a problem with is this:  Your belief is your belief.  You have this thing that makes you feel loved, and cared for, and watched over, and that there is a paradise awating you when you die.

I know all of this is important to believers.  But why can't they just hold their faith?  Their relationship with their god is very personal.  Why would someone think that they need to press this on other people?

I don't understand.  Religion seems to be closely bound with emotion.  Perhaps this is what causes people to act.

I want to understand.

Why can't people hold their faith to themselves, where it belongs, and get on with enoying this gift of life?
 


If you make yourself miserable trying to make others happy that means everyone is miserable.

-Me again

---------------------------------------------
 

6/07/2015 5:57 pm  #8


Re: Pope Urges Bosnians to Work for Peace, Reconciliation

CT, since you are seeking to understand:

Many believers (not just Christian believers) find such joy, comfort, and peace from their religious beliefs and practices that they greatly desire others to find that same solace.

Somtimes their passion for their faith becomes overwhelming, and they cannot keep it to themselves.   They want to share their faith whenever possible.   Many times it is done appropriately, some times it is not.

Conversion by compulsion is seldom a good thing.


Life is an Orthros.
 

6/09/2015 7:10 am  #9


Re: Pope Urges Bosnians to Work for Peace, Reconciliation

I understand that part, Tarnation.  I know it's a very emotional thing for people.

The idea behind religion was to give an individual a sense of peace.  Something to make them less afraid of dying.  Something that they belive will happen to them when they die.

These are all indiidual things.  Things that effect the individual, not the group.

But religions have been dressed up in ceremony and scripture and doctrin and dogma until they don't every remotely resemble what they are supposed to be.

People feel that others should believe as they do because their scripture says so.

Others resist this enforced belief.  So people become angry.  And the anger leads to hatred.  And the hatred leads to violence.

History is riddled with horrors commited in the name of a god.  Doctrine is written in blood.

How did this happen?

Why does no one stop and truly think about thing.

There is no sense of peace.   This has failed.

So why do it?  This is what I do not understand.

Thanks for the post Tarnation.


If you make yourself miserable trying to make others happy that means everyone is miserable.

-Me again

---------------------------------------------
 

6/09/2015 1:28 pm  #10


Re: Pope Urges Bosnians to Work for Peace, Reconciliation

I don't now if I can answer your questions, CT. I can say that religion and faith are two different things. And, while faith is inherently personal, religion is eminently social.

Historically religions have developed as an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence. Many religions use  narratives, symbols, and sacred histories  to explain the meaning of life, the origin of life, or the Universe. From their beliefs about the cosmos and human nature, people may derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle. Thus religion helps to build a community.

Many religions have organized behaviors, clergy, a definition of what constitutes adherence or membership, holy places, and scriptures. Religion becomes entwined with the most important life events, and the most intense periods of both joy and sadness. Many people do derive a sense of peace from it. 

Given that, is there any wonder that communities with different worldviews have clashed.
Men have an intense fear of the other, those who are different from them. Religion, color, language.
Religion is flawed. But only because man is flawed.


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
     Thread Starter
 

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