tennyson wrote:

Tarnation wrote:

Goose wrote:

He broke his own neck?

Please give up on this and join the discussion

Most reasonable people of normal sensibilities would agree that a cause of Freddie Gray's death was a broken neck.

Most reaonable people of normal sensibilities would also agree that Freddie Gray was in Police custody when his death occurred.

While the Police are, without a doubt, and under the rules of criminal procedure totally responsible for the well being and safe keeping of a prisoner in thir custody it is utterly premature and illogical to ass/u/me that "the Police broke Freddie Gray's neck".

First unanswered question:   What about the second prisoner?   Was there a "van cam" filming what took place in the back of the paddy wagon.

Second unanswered question:  What was Freddie Gray doing?   Was he sitting meekly on the bench or on the floor, or was he thrashing about and banging any body part he could against the walls, seats, floor, or cieling?

I have three decades of experience in working with law enforcement; and yes, I have seen violent prisoners bang their heads against the cages or plexiglass in squad cars until they start bleeding profusely, and, in at least one case I personally witnessed, knock themselves unconscious.   Yes, a self-inflicted knockout punch against a prisoner cage.   It happens.

OK, some of you are probably thinking, yeah, right, he broke his own neck.  It is not impossible, especially if he had had a previous injury to the spine.

Third unanswered question:   If there was some serious headbanging going on, was this aided and abetted by an irreversible and lethal medical condition called "excited delirium" in which the body becomes so overloaded with adrenaline that the blood pressure soars and the heart quickly fails....sudden cardiac arrest.   It happens  
And once that course is set it is like tying down the safety valve and stoking the boiler with gasoline soaked rags.   Not a nice ending.   If there were some pharmecuticals (meth, hot heroin) involved add another layer of complication.  Bottom line:  if Freddie was in excited delirum that was absoluetly NO intervention by the police,by
EMS, by an ER doctor that could have saved his life.  He was going to die.  Period.

One of the long term outcomes I foresee is that "prisoner cams" will be required for law enforcement accredidation programs and insisted upon by insurance companies which insure goverments, long, long, before they are required by legistlation.   Then there would be fewer unanswered questions;
 

Thanks. 

All of this is exactly WHY we need to wait for the review to surface and why it needs to be reviewed outside the PD itself. 



 

Yes, I agree as well.  As we have stated Tennyson, we need to wait for all the facts and information to come in before making conclusions.
 

Goose wrote:

And we need to acknowledge the poisonous relationship between the police and certain communities
 

I don't think anyone here is denying that