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2/20/2017 1:59 pm  #1


Choosing sides is no substitute for thinking

I came across this thought provoking article and thought I should share it. 

Yes, what Donald Trump is saying about our press is alarming. And calling actual verified news, "fake news" over and over is dangerous.

But we need to remember that our established, respected papers of record have made some pretty hyperbolic, hair-on-fire statements that upon further review turned out to be very wrong. That feeds into the belief in the Brietbart, alt-right Trumpkin world that the establishment is pulling the wool over our eyes.

We need to remain just as vigilant towards the press as we do against the Trump administration.

The Press vs. the President

The problem with the man currently leading the Republican party is that he is, as the Washington Post puts it, a hostage to the “fanatical policies of the extreme right.” His administration “insults women” and his unwelcome presence in public life “insults us all.” And, because the Republican party is all about the winning these days, the GOP establishment is “ready to forgive” . . . what? . . . “just about anything — as long as he wins.” So says the Post, which is not alone in this estimate: Extreme on economic issues, extreme on the so-called social issues, he even has had an “extreme foreign-policy makeover,” according to The Atlantic.

His views on immigration, MSNBC says, represent the Republican party “shrinking down to its most extreme elements.” One cable-news panelist insists he was the most extreme Republican presidential candidate ever. Paul Krugman laments that he has forsaken all serious policy thinking for “dangerous fantasy.” Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times is also alert to the “dangers” he presents, the “most dangerous of all” being his views on Iran, though Kristof also worries that he is too buddy-buddy with that awful, scheming Benjamin Netanyahu.

Predictably, Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow dogpiled him for his perplexing relationship with Moscow. Vice calls him a “sociopath” and Maureen Dowd dismissed him as “an out-of-touch plutocrat” who keeps “his true nature . . . buried where we can’t see it,” a devious figure who is so awful deep down inside that he “must hide an essential part of who he is” from the public.

President Mitt Romney sounds like he would have been a riot. Alas, his presidency never came to pass, thanks in no small part to the hysteria chronicled above. Every Republican president is “the most extreme ever,” or so Democrats and their media friends insist.

(“We do always say that,” one Democratic friend acknowledged. “And it is always true.” Well . . . )

....It is possible, if you are not mentally crippled, to hold in your mind two non-exclusive ideas: Donald J. Trump stinks, and the press stinks. Trump’s spat with the press is a bloodless Iran–Iraq war, and I myself am cheering for (metaphorical) casualties.

If you find yourself only able to focus on which party stinks worse, then you have adopted the pre-kindergarten “binary choice” rhetoric of the campaign, in which both Trump and Clinton supporters insisted that we must ignore the obvious character defects, financial shenanigans, lies, and foolishness of A or B on the theory that B or A is so much worse that we simply cannot acknowledge any shortcomings on the other side.

Those of us who have not entirely surrendered our neocortices to one cable-news tribe or the other are perfectly capable of criticizing Trump and criticizing the media.

The tragedy of all this is that, yeah, we really could use an effective, active, and credible press right now. We have an active one five days out of the week, an effective one five days out of the month, and a credible one . . . not that often. My criticisms of Trump do not go so far as those who believe that he is a budding fascist dictator on the verge of building concentration camps, but if you really did believe that, wouldn’t you wish, at least a little, that the media hadn’t been exactly as hysterical when faced with the bland, anodyne visage of Mitt Romney? Or John McCain? You want to be taken seriously now after insisting that Dick Cheney was the new American Gestapo? The last wolf show we bought tickets for wasn’t really all that spectacularly lupine.

It would be really very useful to have an authoritative source. I do not agree with Barack Obama about much of anything, but there is something to his argument that our public discourse suffers from our lack of anything that might be generally agreed upon as an authoritative source. The problem is that Barack Obama believes that this authoritative source should be Rachel Maddow or someone like her, or the editorial columns of the New York Times, dopey and predictable as they are. 

.....<The> opposite number is a correspondent who on the same day sneered at me for relying on the New York Times as a source for a historical question, because we all know that no conservative can trust the New York Times. The Times column in question was written by the eminent historian John Lukacs, whose conservative bona fides are such that there is literally a chapter on him in a book called Catholic Intellectuals and Conservative Politics in America 1950–1985, alongside Russell Kirk, Michael Novak (RIP), and William F. Buckley Jr. It did not matter to him what was written or by whom, only that it came from the other side — from the enemy camp.

We deserve a better press, and a better president, too. If you are the sort of partisan who cannot entertain the possibility that both of these things may be true at the same time, then you ought to consider the possibility that you are one of the reasons why we do not have a better press or a better president.

 


I think you're going to see a lot of different United States of America over the next three, four, or eight years. - President Donald J. Trump
 

2/20/2017 2:06 pm  #2


Re: Choosing sides is no substitute for thinking

So far the out of wack statements seem to be coming MUCH more from the POTUS than the MSM. 

 

Last edited by tennyson (2/20/2017 2:11 pm)


"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
 
 

2/20/2017 2:41 pm  #3


Re: Choosing sides is no substitute for thinking

TheLagerLad wrote:

We need to remain just as vigilant towards the press as we do against the Trump administration.

 

And,,,,,, the Trumpers need to start holding Him accountable.
It rings awfully hollow to see  folks complain about fake news when they never utter a syllable of disapproval of Trump's lies.

I would also caution against establishing some sort of moral equivalence.
I agree with Tennyson here. When it comes to lying, the press is nowhere near this President.
Not even close. I've never seen anything like it.

Last edited by Goose (2/20/2017 2:45 pm)


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

2/20/2017 3:43 pm  #4


Re: Choosing sides is no substitute for thinking

Goose wrote:

TheLagerLad wrote:

We need to remain just as vigilant towards the press as we do against the Trump administration.

 

And,,,,,, the Trumpers need to start holding Him accountable.
It rings awfully hollow to see  folks complain about fake news when they never utter a syllable of disapproval of Trump's lies.

I would also caution against establishing some sort of moral equivalence.
I agree with Tennyson here. When it comes to lying, the press is nowhere near this President.
Not even close. I've never seen anything like it.

I don't think I am trying to assign any moral equivalence here.  

With the dissolution of our media into political factions, particularly on the television and internet side of the house, we're getting further and further away, as Barack Obama said, an authoritative source for basic facts.

That didn't happen overnight and it's not going to be fixed overnight. It's certainly not going to be fixed while Donald Trump is in office. 

But we do need to get back to a basic agreement on basic facts. And the way to do that is to rebuild the trust between the media and the public. 

Look, I know Donald Trump is full of crap. I want the nation to know that the folks charged with keeping the government accountable aren't.


I think you're going to see a lot of different United States of America over the next three, four, or eight years. - President Donald J. Trump
     Thread Starter
 

2/21/2017 8:18 am  #5


Re: Choosing sides is no substitute for thinking

TheLagerLad wrote:

Goose wrote:

TheLagerLad wrote:

We need to remain just as vigilant towards the press as we do against the Trump administration.

 

And,,,,,, the Trumpers need to start holding Him accountable.
It rings awfully hollow to see  folks complain about fake news when they never utter a syllable of disapproval of Trump's lies.

I would also caution against establishing some sort of moral equivalence.
I agree with Tennyson here. When it comes to lying, the press is nowhere near this President.
Not even close. I've never seen anything like it.

I don't think I am trying to assign any moral equivalence here.  

With the dissolution of our media into political factions, particularly on the television and internet side of the house, we're getting further and further away, as Barack Obama said, an authoritative source for basic facts.

That didn't happen overnight and it's not going to be fixed overnight. It's certainly not going to be fixed while Donald Trump is in office. 

But we do need to get back to a basic agreement on basic facts. And the way to do that is to rebuild the trust between the media and the public. 

Look, I know Donald Trump is full of crap. I want the nation to know that the folks charged with keeping the government accountable aren't.

I don't think that the non-cable news is terribly partisan. I know they have had a LOT to say about Trump lately, but most of it is of his own making. Maybe I am myself partisan, but I try to hear both sides. Now on the cable news, many of the newscasters ARE EXTREMELY partisan and the later in the night you tune in the more it is evident. By the same token on mid day cable news some of the reports are rather straight forward. 

One thing is evident that many really do WANT to live in bubbles. 

Politics have divided the country like no time I can remember. I can understand peoples frustration that have lost good paying jobs as well as their frustration with government in general, but sometimes it seems to blind people to reality. The current trend in politics to look for a scapegoat is extremely troubling. 
 


"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
 
 

2/21/2017 8:31 am  #6


Re: Choosing sides is no substitute for thinking

tennyson wrote:

TheLagerLad wrote:

Goose wrote:

And,,,,,, the Trumpers need to start holding Him accountable.
It rings awfully hollow to see  folks complain about fake news when they never utter a syllable of disapproval of Trump's lies.

I would also caution against establishing some sort of moral equivalence.
I agree with Tennyson here. When it comes to lying, the press is nowhere near this President.
Not even close. I've never seen anything like it.

I don't think I am trying to assign any moral equivalence here.  

With the dissolution of our media into political factions, particularly on the television and internet side of the house, we're getting further and further away, as Barack Obama said, an authoritative source for basic facts.

That didn't happen overnight and it's not going to be fixed overnight. It's certainly not going to be fixed while Donald Trump is in office. 

But we do need to get back to a basic agreement on basic facts. And the way to do that is to rebuild the trust between the media and the public. 

Look, I know Donald Trump is full of crap. I want the nation to know that the folks charged with keeping the government accountable aren't.

I don't think that the non-cable news is terribly partisan. I know they have had a LOT to say about Trump lately, but most of it is of his own making. Maybe I am myself partisan, but I try to hear both sides. Now on the cable news, many of the newscasters ARE EXTREMELY partisan and the later in the night you tune in the more it is evident. By the same token on mid day cable news some of the reports are rather straight forward. 

One thing is evident that many really do WANT to live in bubbles. 

Politics have divided the country like no time I can remember. I can understand peoples frustration that have lost good paying jobs as well as their frustration with government in general, but sometimes it seems to blind people to reality. The current trend in politics to look for a scapegoat is extremely troubling. 
 

 
Quite true. Too many people willingly flock to sources that reinforce, rather than challenge, their worldview.
As the head of the Thought Police says in Orwell's 1984:
"The best books are the ones that tell you what you already know."

Last edited by Goose (2/21/2017 8:32 am)


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

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