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4/17/2015 5:02 pm  #11


Re: Relief for the Wealthy

Just Fred wrote:

My observation, Common, is this:

Since money controls politics and politics controls governmental decision-making, it seems to me by shoving more and more cash to the top, I foresee a time when the people that control government really won't need to be elected to office.  This has happened again and again and again throughout the course of history to nations and civilizations who believed they were God's chosen people or thought they were were greatest nation the world has ever seen.  Now, for many of them, the sun sets on them every night.

So let's take for example Bill Gates and Warren Buffet (the two richest men in America). I am sure their government controlling, manipulative money has not done any good for the people below them ?????





 


"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
 
 

4/17/2015 5:25 pm  #12


Re: Relief for the Wealthy

Ok, we'll just have to wait and see if the creation of a plutocracy works out for us.  The wealthiest among us will always do what's best for America and people they employ and depend on.

Last edited by Just Fred (4/17/2015 5:26 pm)

 

4/18/2015 1:03 am  #13


Re: Relief for the Wealthy

Fred, you seem to be making the argument that, since wealthy people use money to influence the political process, that we should simply do everything in our power to eliminate wealth.......

Also, how does this pertain to the estate tax? We have an estate tax. We have wealthy people. Doesn't look like it accomplishes your mission. Abolishing the tax will have it's greatest affect on lawyers who write irrevocable trusts, and that is about it.

I support a genrous social safety net, progressive taxation, even on unearned income, educational assistance, etc.
If a few people who obey the rules  and make a fortune, let them pass it on to their kids.

If you want to help the poor and middle class, look for ways to solve this stagnation in wages. If you want "fairness" push for a tax system that treats unearned income more like earned income.

If you are concerned about a plutocracy, support candidates who want to limit the influence of money on politics.
One thing the wealthy cannot change, there are more of us than there are of them. Maybe people just don't want to soak the rich beyond their own concept of fairness.


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

4/18/2015 5:43 am  #14


Re: Relief for the Wealthy

Just Fred wrote:

Ok, we'll just have to wait and see if the creation of a plutocracy works out for us.  The wealthiest among us will always do what's best for America and people they employ and depend on.

And the least wealthy among us are - to a man - saints?


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

4/18/2015 6:40 am  #15


Re: Relief for the Wealthy

Goose, I agree with everything you mentioned in post #13.  We need a multi-pronged appoach to prevent the creation of a plutocratic oligarchy where a democracy used to exist.  I view the elimination of the estate tax as another small step (combined with several other steps as you have mentioned) of taking taking us down that road to aristocratic rule.  From the few contributors on this topic I realize I'm in the minority here.

 

 

4/18/2015 8:08 am  #16


Re: Relief for the Wealthy

Just Fred wrote:

Goose, I agree with everything you mentioned in post #13.  We need a multi-pronged appoach to prevent the creation of a plutocratic oligarchy where a democracy used to exist.  I view the elimination of the estate tax as another small step (combined with several other steps as you have mentioned) of taking taking us down that road to aristocratic rule.  From the few contributors on this topic I realize I'm in the minority here.

 

I believe the lack of support is only for the estate tax. It is a tax that should not exist. Is there way too much money in politics ? Yes. Unfortunately laws need to be reversed to fix much of that. There is a difference in having money and using that money to bend the political process. 

BTW, I brought up the two most wealthy men in America as an example of what I believe are actually people who are helping by the use of their money. Buffet and Gates a number of years back have initiated "The Giving Pledge" which targets wealth individuals giving away 50% of their wealth for good causes . Obviously they did not have to do any of this. It gets minimal headlines vs topics like what we have here. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-giving-pledge-a-new-club-for-billionaires/




 

Last edited by tennyson (4/18/2015 8:09 am)


"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
 
 

4/18/2015 8:30 am  #17


Re: Relief for the Wealthy

Just curious, and I don't know if there any stats to determine an answer:

The Koch Brothers, for example, are injecting 800+ million into R-Tribe campaigns.  They aren't shy about it.  I'm wondering if either Gates or Buffet are planning to do the same for progressive candidates or candidates that support the issues they feel are important.

 

4/18/2015 8:38 am  #18


Re: Relief for the Wealthy

Just Fred wrote:

Just curious, and I don't know if there any stats to determine an answer:

The Koch Brothers, for example, are injecting 800+ million into R-Tribe campaigns.  They aren't shy about it.  I'm wondering if either Gates or Buffet are planning to do the same for progressive candidates or candidates that support the issues they feel are important.

So would you be happy IF Gates and Buffet support progressives with similar monies ?????? 

 


"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
 
 

4/18/2015 9:04 am  #19


Re: Relief for the Wealthy

A couple of thoughts....

There are more than a few ways to avoid the estate tax

The estate tax doesn't account for much in the way of revenues nor does it affect a whole lot of people. This whole arguments kind of falls into the "mountain out of a molehill", no?

I hope as we begin the 2016 campaign season in earnest, we focus less on the indivdual breaks and/or entitlements certain groups get (estate tax/food stamps/mortgage interest deduction) and focus more on a macro policy of wage growth, GDP growth, trade stability, and debt reduction. 


I think you're going to see a lot of different United States of America over the next three, four, or eight years. - President Donald J. Trump
 

4/18/2015 9:15 am  #20


Re: Relief for the Wealthy

Response to Tennyson:

No, that's not my point.  I was just curious to know whether or not the mega-rich invested in politicans that supported causes that did not necessarily benefit them personally.

I guess in general I'm beginning to see too many parallels between what's happening in the USA today and what happened to many nations in the past due to the lop-sided concentration of wealth among a few individuals or families.

Last edited by Just Fred (4/18/2015 9:17 am)

 

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