The Man wrote:

tennyson wrote:

The Man wrote:

Everyone with a sane mind should be extremely skeptical of Tom Wolf's tax plan, not just farmers. We can't just blindly trust a politician's word that the average family's tax burden is going to be reduced. Quite frankly, this reeks of Ed Rendell's casino scheme, only worse. Anything less than a dollar for dollar school property tax elimination is not good enough, as far as I'm concerned. We don't want this BS that politicians try to sell us as 'relief'.

You should be sceptical of ANY plan to re-distribute taxes. The elimination of property taxes will simply (at least at first) just mean replacing one tax with another. All the monies that need to be raised will initially be the same, just coming from different areas. Some people will in essence make out better and some will come out worse. 

As far as gaming income goes, PA last year garnered just a little over $3 Billion to their coffers (see the link below). The revenue however is down slightly for the second year in a row. PA is still making out better than NJ as the industry has become over saturated. 

Also according the the article, Pennsylvania's casino market is the nation's second largest after Las Vegas in terms of gross revenue, and No. 1 in taxes collected.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/01/pennsylvania_casino_revenues_d.html

There ARE inequities in the current school taxing system. So far I would like to see changes in either of the plans that have been considered to address the inequities. 




 

I completely understand and know full well that if property taxes are eliminated that that revenue would need to be made up elsewhere. But, if we would do a dollar for dollar replacement, EVERYONE would pay, not just property owners. People who work but live with someone else would also pay. Anyone with an income and/or buys things would pay. It would lower the overall burden on everyone. Tom Wolf's plan, a convoluted mess, if it ever delivered any property tax relief at all (a big IF), would have us paying the same property taxes and more very quickly, plus be stuck paying higher income taxes and sales taxes. Why would anyone want that?

As far as casinos go, I don't disagree that Pennsylvania's casinos are successful. I just want to know where the promised significant property tax relief from the casino profits is?
 

Well, it would be impossible that it would lower the overall burden on everyone given that is just comes from a different pocket. Pretty much today all people who live in any housing that they have to pay for (own or rent) either directly via their property taxes or through their rent pays the property tax. 

As I said before I certainly agree there are things that can and should be done to help make it more equitable. I just have problems with all the plans that have come forward thus far. 

If you want to veiw the current status of the property tax relief here is the link. 

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/property_tax_relief/7452/property_tax_reduction_allocations/510335




 

Last edited by tennyson (3/28/2015 9:42 pm)

I'm new on here, the quote feature seems to be somewhat difficult compared to other forums that I post on.  Meaning, it shows up out of order when you quote and post.

Last edited by The Man (3/28/2015 9:57 pm)

Just Fred wrote:

Ok, lots of info here.  If reducing or eliminating property taxation is the goal, who's got a better plan than the proposal by Governor Wolf?  I'd like to hear about it.

 
My plan would be a dollar for dollar replacement.  Scrap property taxes entirely, and replace them with income and/or sales tax, so that everyone with an income and who purchases things pays in, not just people who own or rent property.  I don't know if any politicians have that plan.  I hope they do, and I hope they fight for it.

Property tax 'relief' is a scam.  We all found that out in the past with the casinos.  We don't want to go down that road again.

Just Fred wrote:

My plan would be a dollar for dollar replacement.  Scrap property taxes entirely, and replace them with income and/or sales tax, so that everyone with an income and who purchases things pays in, not just people who own or rent property.  I don't know if any politicians have that plan.  I hope they do, and I hope they fight for it.

On the surface, it sounds ok by me.  If there is a downside, let's hear it.
 

 
The only possible downside I can think of is maybe the tax money wouldn't be as guaranteed and predictable as it is with property taxes?  Property taxes give the government a sort of captive audience, but, there is a limit to what people can afford to pay.  On the flip side, over-burdening property owners with property taxes gives them little incentive to maintain and improve their properties.  If someone wants to make their property nice on the exterior, maybe put an addition on, the prospect of paying even more money to property taxes is a huge deterrent.  It is amazing how many houses in York City, and probably any city, are run down on the outside, but look like a state of the art, happening Manhattan abode on the inside.

Last edited by The Man (3/29/2015 10:58 am)

Goose wrote:

There's a risk that this will be the first in a series of increases in income taxes.

There's the risk that you will be assailed by groups claiming that sales taxes are increasing the ost of living in the state.

One other risk that has already been pointed out elsewhere via the income tax is that in an economic downturn typically income falls as people lose jobs then the result is less income to distribute to the schools. That is not the case with property taxes that remain a known no matter the economy. Some of the plans also rely on other items being taxed as well to help support the schools (outside of income) and the same senario applies there too. 

Being in the group of people now on a fixed income, I expect no matter how it might change, I generally should benefit. Same thing with people in a low tax base area (cities primarily) should also receive a big benefit from the proposed plans. I have said before that I see issues with all plans thus proposed. Those people who currently live in districts with a good tax base and what they consider are very good schools are likely OK with the current status. 

We have strayed quite a bit from the issue of the farmers and the new possible tax, but that is OK, that is just the way these threads go. 






 

Last edited by tennyson (3/29/2015 11:45 am)