- Rongone
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Re: Farmers skeptical of Wolf’s tax plan
- Goose
- Cogito ergo sum
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Re: Farmers skeptical of Wolf’s tax plan
Priceless!
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
- tennyson
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Re: Farmers skeptical of Wolf’s tax plan
Rongone wrote:
Aside from the fact that agricultural farms receive heavy subsidies and low interest loans to help continue their business, landowners have many options that enable them to reduce their tax burden -- both federal and state.
The following article from Forbes provides some insight. The title of the article is "Farm Like a Billionaire -- Harvest Tax Breaks".
Look, if you try to modify/simplify/change the current voluminous tax code, somebody (usually somebody afraid they're going to lose a deduction they've come to enjoy) are going to express dissatisfaction, usually threatening dire circumstances will result for others due to the impending change.Guess the farmers here don't know how good they have it? Multigenerational family farms are being sold piece by piece to pay property taxes. Many small farms are being destroyed a few acres at a time. Sold to pay the taxes!
Having had some experience in this (140 acre farm in the family down near The Brogue) I agree that some small farms have sold off partially or completely. Some, but not all, of this is due to poor management. Some due to just wanting to get out of the business. Sometimes a family decision by surviving family members.
Our family farm has gone through several changes -- pure agricultural crops, tree farming, horse breeding/training/boarding -- and each iteration has programs that are advantageous to the landowner that investigates, applies, and is accepted.
I'm just saying that you just can't listen to alarmist proclamations by individuals or groups that have greedy, self promotional, interests without questioning their motives.
"We fear change." Garth Algar
Totally agree. There certainly are some farmers that are between a rock and a hard place, but that said many are doing quite nicely. We ARE losing farm country, but in many cases it is NOT because the farmer is hard pressed, but more the fact that he can get millions for his property from new develpment concerns coupled with the fact that he has no one in the family interested in taking over the farm business.
"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
- Just Fred
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Re: Farmers skeptical of Wolf’s tax plan
I'm only injecting an anecdotal story here to consider:
One of my brother's-in-law (living in the Milton, PA. area) owned a chicken farm. He was not making a ton of money, but enough to live and support himself and his family. Taxes were not his downfall ............ but, it was the Perdue corporation. He simply was not able to compete, so he sold his business to them and kept his operation going while in effect, was now working for them. After a couple of years of this he decided it wasn't worth it. Ryan, like many farmers, are a proudly independent lot, but are finding it increasingly difficult to compete with the 'big boys'.
He never mentioned that taxation was the problem for him. As I stated in my opening sentence, this is antecodotal story, but I'm guessing it could be repeated by other small, independent farmers.
Another thing I've noticed is the number of small farms being sold to real estate developers here in Lancaster County. We might be sad to see it happen, but looking at it from the farmer's point-of-view, it might make financial sense. For example, suppose you own a small farm that is worth, say $5000/acre. You have a 50 acre farm, so your property is worth around $250,000 as a farm. Joe, representing Ajax Realty, offers you 1.5 million for your property. It's quite tempting since none of your children are interested in running the family farm, and you are getting too old to manage it yourself. Tennyson also stated the same thing.
The point is while taxation could be a player in all of this, we need to consider other things as well.
Last edited by Just Fred (3/28/2015 10:21 am)
- Goose
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Re: Farmers skeptical of Wolf’s tax plan
Good posts, guys. Farmers are under a number of pressures.
Taxes are but one, and I'm not certain that they are at the top of the list.
The government is always the bad guy with some.
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
- The Man
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Re: Farmers skeptical of Wolf’s tax plan
Everyone with a sane mind should be extremely skeptical of Tom Wolf's tax plan, not just farmers. We can't just blindly trust a politician's word that the average family's tax burden is going to be reduced. Quite frankly, this reeks of Ed Rendell's casino scheme, only worse. Anything less than a dollar for dollar school property tax elimination is not good enough, as far as I'm concerned. We don't want this BS that politicians try to sell us as 'relief'.
- Goose
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Re: Farmers skeptical of Wolf’s tax plan
Everyone with a sane mind should be extremely skeptical of Tom Wolf's tax plan, not just farmers. We can't just blindly trust a politician's word that the average family's tax burden is going to be reduced. Quite frankly, this reeks of Ed Rendell's casino scheme, only worse. Anything less than a dollar for dollar school property tax elimination is not good enough, as far as I'm concerned. We don't want this BS that politicians try to sell us as 'relief'.
I get a little skeptical when someone says that "everyone with a sane mind believes X".
Just sayin'.
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
- tennyson
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Re: Farmers skeptical of Wolf’s tax plan
Everyone with a sane mind should be extremely skeptical of Tom Wolf's tax plan, not just farmers. We can't just blindly trust a politician's word that the average family's tax burden is going to be reduced. Quite frankly, this reeks of Ed Rendell's casino scheme, only worse. Anything less than a dollar for dollar school property tax elimination is not good enough, as far as I'm concerned. We don't want this BS that politicians try to sell us as 'relief'.
You should be sceptical of ANY plan to re-distribute taxes. The elimination of property taxes will simply (at least at first) just mean replacing one tax with another. All the monies that need to be raised will initially be the same, just coming from different areas. Some people will in essence make out better and some will come out worse.
As far as gaming income goes, PA last year garnered just a little over $3 Billion to their coffers (see the link below). The revenue however is down slightly for the second year in a row. PA is still making out better than NJ as the industry has become over saturated.
Also according the the article, Pennsylvania's casino market is the nation's second largest after Las Vegas in terms of gross revenue, and No. 1 in taxes collected.
There ARE inequities in the current school taxing system. So far I would like to see changes in either of the plans that have been considered to address the inequities.
Last edited by tennyson (3/28/2015 7:09 pm)
"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
- The Man
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Re: Farmers skeptical of Wolf’s tax plan
Everyone with a sane mind should be extremely skeptical of Tom Wolf's tax plan, not just farmers. We can't just blindly trust a politician's word that the average family's tax burden is going to be reduced. Quite frankly, this reeks of Ed Rendell's casino scheme, only worse. Anything less than a dollar for dollar school property tax elimination is not good enough, as far as I'm concerned. We don't want this BS that politicians try to sell us as 'relief'.
I get a little skeptical when someone says that "everyone with a sane mind believes X".
Just sayin'.
That isn't what I said.
Just sayin'.
- The Man
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- Registered: 3/07/2015
- Posts: 779
Re: Farmers skeptical of Wolf’s tax plan
Everyone with a sane mind should be extremely skeptical of Tom Wolf's tax plan, not just farmers. We can't just blindly trust a politician's word that the average family's tax burden is going to be reduced. Quite frankly, this reeks of Ed Rendell's casino scheme, only worse. Anything less than a dollar for dollar school property tax elimination is not good enough, as far as I'm concerned. We don't want this BS that politicians try to sell us as 'relief'.
You should be sceptical of ANY plan to re-distribute taxes. The elimination of property taxes will simply (at least at first) just mean replacing one tax with another. All the monies that need to be raised will initially be the same, just coming from different areas. Some people will in essence make out better and some will come out worse.
As far as gaming income goes, PA last year garnered just a little over $3 Billion to their coffers (see the link below). The revenue however is down slightly for the second year in a row. PA is still making out better than NJ as the industry has become over saturated.
Also according the the article, Pennsylvania's casino market is the nation's second largest after Las Vegas in terms of gross revenue, and No. 1 in taxes collected.
There ARE inequities in the current school taxing system. So far I would like to see changes in either of the plans that have been considered to address the inequities.
I completely understand and know full well that if property taxes are eliminated that that revenue would need to be made up elsewhere. But, if we would do a dollar for dollar replacement, EVERYONE would pay, not just property owners. People who work but live with someone else would also pay. Anyone with an income and/or buys things would pay. It would lower the overall burden on everyone. Tom Wolf's plan, a convoluted mess, if it ever delivered any property tax relief at all (a big IF), would have us paying the same property taxes and more very quickly, plus be stuck paying higher income taxes and sales taxes. Why would anyone want that?
As far as casinos go, I don't disagree that Pennsylvania's casinos are successful. I just want to know where the promised significant property tax relief from the casino profits is?