1 - Common Sense
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'Hands Up Don't Shoot' The big lie!
'All Lies' Don Lemon Panel Goes at It Over 'Hands Up Don't Shoot'
“We hold these truths to be self-evident,” former vice president Biden said during a campaign event in Texas on Monday. "All men and women created by — you know, you know, the thing.”
- Goose
- Cogito ergo sum
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Re: 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' The big lie!
Why did an entire community believe such a lie?
Are they bad people, or was the relationship between the community and the police frayed to begin with?
Read the DOJ report instead on mindlessly gloating.
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
- Common Sense
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Re: 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' The big lie!
‘Hands up, don’t shoot’ was built on a lie
Read the full story here:
Page 8: Although there are several individuals who have stated that Brown held his hands up in an unambiguous sign of surrender prior to Wilson shooting him dead, their accounts do not support a prosecution of Wilson. As detailed throughout this report, some of those accounts are inaccurate because they are inconsistent with the physical and forensic evidence; some of those accounts are materially inconsistent with that witness’s own prior statements with no explanation, credible [or] otherwise, as to why those accounts changed over time. Certain other witnesses who originally stated Brown had his hands up in surrender recanted their original accounts, admitting that they did not witness the shooting or parts of it, despite what they initially reported either to federal or local law enforcement or to the media. Prosecutors did not rely on those accounts when making a prosecutive decision.
Although some witnesses state that Brown held his hands up at shoulder level with his palms facing outward for a brief moment, these same witnesses describe Brown then dropping his hands and “charging” at Wilson.
Last edited by Common Sense (3/21/2015 6:58 pm)
“We hold these truths to be self-evident,” former vice president Biden said during a campaign event in Texas on Monday. "All men and women created by — you know, you know, the thing.”
- •
Thread Starter- Goose
- Cogito ergo sum
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Re: 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' The big lie!
So, are you suggesting that there were no problems in Ferguson, and that this just arose because the population is bad?
What is your point?
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
- Goose
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Re: 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' The big lie!
Please repond on topic without personal attack.
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
- Common Sense
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Re: 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' The big lie!
Goose wrote:
So, are you suggesting that there were no problems in Ferguson, and that this just arose because the population is bad?
What is your point?
I am suggesting that the phrase was a complete and total lie! And it was!
“We hold these truths to be self-evident,” former vice president Biden said during a campaign event in Texas on Monday. "All men and women created by — you know, you know, the thing.”
- •
Thread Starter- Goose
- Cogito ergo sum
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- Registered: 1/29/2015
- Posts: 13,427
Re: 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' The big lie!
So, are you suggesting that there were no problems in Ferguson, and that this just arose because the population is bad?
What is your point?
I am suggesting that the phrase was a complete and total lie! And it was!
Do you undertsand the environment in which such a lie became believable?
Do yourself a favor and read the DOJ report.
It's all well and good to proclaim, "it's a lie, I win", but have some interest in understanding why things happen.
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
- tennyson
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Re: 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' The big lie!
It apparently WAS a lie and the lie intensified an already bad situation. Nothing good ever comes out of a lie in situations like this.
This is NOT to say, as the report concludes, that there is a LOT that needs to change in Ferguson. There is.
What the people of Ferguson need to understand is the power to make that change has been in their hands for quite awhile but they have failed to use it (and I don't mean violence or even protests).
"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
- BYOB
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Re: 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' The big lie!
Although some witnesses state that Brown held his hands up at shoulder level with his palms facing outward for a brief moment, these same witnesses describe Brown then dropping his hands and “charging” at Wilson. - said Common Sense
So in other words, everyone was right. It sounds like he most likely put his hands up for a brief moment, then charged back towards the officer. It still doesn't change the fact that an unarmed kid is dead for possible shoplifting, when other non-lethal force could have been used. It sounds like crappy choices on the part of both Mr. Brown and Mr. Wilson. The chant "hands up, don't shoot" may have started out having a literal meaning, but it quickly morphed into a metaphor for other widespread occurances where the issue of excessive force is in play. If you still take it literally, then you don't get it.
(I have no idea why my computer all of a sudden would only type in Italics, but now it's normal again. ?)
Last edited by BYOB (3/21/2015 10:54 pm)
- tennyson
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Re: 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' The big lie!
Although some witnesses state that Brown held his hands up at shoulder level with his palms facing outward for a brief moment, these same witnesses describe Brown then dropping his hands and “charging” at Wilson. - said Common Sense
So in other words, everyone was right. It sounds like he most likely put his hands up for a brief moment, then charged back towards the officer. It still doesn't change the fact that an unarmed kid is dead for possible shoplifting, when other non-lethal force could have been used. It sounds like crappy choices on the part of both Mr. Brown and Mr. Wilson. The chant "hands up, don't shoot" may have started out having a literal meaning, but it quickly morphed into a metaphor for other widespread occurances where the issue of excessive force is in play. If you still take it literally, then you don't get it.
(I have no idea why my computer all of a sudden would only type in Italics, but now it's normal again. ?)
You certainly have your right to your opinion, but my take is number one he was NOT shot because he may have been involved in a grocery store incident. I don't even believe the officer knew it when this occured from what I had read. The moment that Brown grabbed for the officers gun, the whole dynamics of the situation would have changed from the officers perspective.
As far as the chant, yes, I do believe it was used literally and still is by some. It did provoke nationwide violence. It was NOT a good thing. The protests were fine when they were non-violent, but I stand by my eralier comment that the people in Ferguson have had the power in their hands (voting and getting therir own representatives in a position to make change) but have abdicated that power and responsibility.
I make these statements not to defend the overall action of the police. The report paints a picture of a culture that needs to changed. If you read the report, howeve, just as much (I actually think more) blame goes to the city officials who pushed the police to generate revenue. That should not be the purpose of the force.
Last edited by tennyson (3/22/2015 7:00 am)
"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"