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I think for Bush it was his best debate so far but at single digit in the polls it won't make any difference for him.
Carson was at the bottom I think the overall loser. I don't see any big moves. Trump and Cruz will remain at the top.
It almost seemed that Cruz and Trump has a pact not to attack each other? On the other hand Rubio it seemed was under constant attack.
GOP debate winners and losers
The final Republican presidential debate of 2015 brought heated clashes between several major candidates in Las Vegas on Tuesday night, when national front-runner Donald Trump tangled with a newly assertive Jeb Bush, and Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz repeatedly jabbed at each other.Who won and who was left licking their wounds with only seven weeks — and one more debate — left before the Iowa caucuses?
WINNERSFormer Florida Gov. Jeb BushBush had by far his strongest performance in any debate to date. The former Florida governor, whose last election campaign was in 2002, had looked rusty and hesitant in all his previous outings. On Tuesday night he made a far crisper and more assertive showing. Bush delivered the most memorable line of the debate’s early stages when he said Trump was “a chaos candidate. And he’d be a chaos president.” In a later exchange, he told the businessman, “You’re not going to be able to insult your way to the presidency,” a phrase met with applause from the audience at The Venetian casino hotel. There were important caveats to Bush’s performance. He didn’t win every tussle. The awkward, fumbling Bush on display in the first four debates suddenly reappeared when it was time for a closing statement. And the biggest question is whether a good debate can really help a candidate who languishes at just 4 percent national support, according to the RealClearPolitics polling average.Still, Bush's supporters can take heart. The candidate they’ve been expecting for months finally showed up on Tuesday evening.
Sens. Ted Cruz (Texas) and Marco Rubio (Florida)
The two senators have been on the rise in recent polls — Cruz more dramatically than Rubio — and each man seemed to keep his momentum going. The two punched and counter-punched throughout the night on subjects including government surveillance, military spending and immigration. The exchanges were often sharp: Cruz repeatedly accused Rubio of sowing confusion and even invoked the name of left-wing organizer Saul Alinsky — a much-hated figure among conservatives — when describing the Floridian’s tactics. But Rubio stayed on offense for the most part, and Cruz did himself no favors by at times attempting to talk roughshod over rivals and moderators.
The senators ultimately fought to a draw, and the fact that their jousting took up so much airtime underlined their status as the candidates on the rise, right behind Trump.
New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie
Christie, who was once written off in this year’s race, is now a serious contender in New Hampshire, at least. His impressive performances in debates have helped fuel his resurgence. Tuesday was not Christie’s best night at the podium, but he acquitted himself well, especially when he contrasted his executive experience as a governor with the work of the three senators onstage, whom he disparaged as talkers rather than people of action.On the subject of guarding against terrorism while also not infringing civil liberties, Christie exhorted the moderators to "talk about how we do this, not about which bill ... these guys like more. The American people don't care about that.”
MIXED Businessman Donald Trump
Trump’s instincts for how to make news are unerring, and he proved that again with a declaration in the debate’s closing stages that he would not make a third-party run for the White House if he failed to secure the GOP nomination. That alone will ensure that the national front-runner wins his share of headlines in the aftermath. But it was otherwise an indifferent night for Trump, who encountered more audible hostility from the crowd in Las Vegas than he has during previous bouts. Trump’s disdain for details has long disconcerted political professionals, and it manifested itself again in a confusing answer about whether he would seek to restrict Internet access as part of the battle against radical Islamic militants. But Trump’s “broad strokes” approach has not harmed him so far, and there is no reason to assume it will do so now.
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.)
Paul only made the main stage for this debate by the skin of his teeth, but he made adequate use of the opportunity. The moderators’ focus on foreign policy and national security helped Paul in one sense: He got the chance to expound on the libertarian-leaning beliefs that are the bedrock of his politics and to express his skepticism about military action. “We have to have a more realistic foreign policy and not a utopian one where we say, ‘Oh, we're going to spread freedom and democracy, and everybody in the Middle East is going to love us,’ ” he said in the late stages of the debate.
“They are not going to love us.”The problem for Paul is twofold. First, however polished his arguments on these issues, there is no evidence at all that a plurality of Republican voters agree with him. Secondly, he is likely just too far behind — he averages around 2 percent support nationally, according to RealClearPolitics — for even a positive showing to make much difference.
LOSERS
Retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson
The halcyon days of Carson’s presidential campaign look as if they could be over. His poll ratings have been dropping precipitously in recent weeks, since terrorist attacks in Paris and San Bernardino, Calif., raised questions about his grasp of foreign policy. Carson’s debate style has always been unorthodox: soft-spoken and affable to his supporters but vague and meandering to his critics. That was acceptable when he was soaring in the polls, but it’s hard to see how it can possibly turn around his recent decline.
Ohio Gov. John Kasich and businesswoman Carly Fiorina
Neither Kasich nor Fiorina had any real flubs. But they both needed something extraordinary to vault into serious contention for the nomination. They didn’t get it. Both candidates were marginal figures for long stretches of the two-hour debate.
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Cruz knows that Trump will eventually fall and he wants to be there to pick up his voting bloc.
On this point, I'll give Cruz credit for being a pretty shrewd politician. He's the only one out there trying to maintain peace with Trump.
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I'll give Ted Cruz credit for being the closest real live representation of Damien Thorn that I have ever encountered.
Last edited by Rongone (12/16/2015 1:53 pm)
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Rongone wrote:
I'll give Ted Cruz credit for being the closest real live representation of Damien Thorn that I have ever encountered.
Had no idea who Damien Thorn was so I googled it. Cruz is the Antichrist and the son of the devil? Drama.....
From Wikipedia:A Fictional CharacterDamien Thorn is a fictional character and the primary antagonist of The Omen series. He is the Antichrist and the son of the Devil.
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TheLagerLad wrote:
Cruz knows that Trump will eventually fall and he wants to be there to pick up his voting bloc.
On this point, I'll give Cruz credit for being a pretty shrewd politician. He's the only one out there trying to maintain peace with Trump.
Lager do you think Trump will saying something or do something that will finally turn voters off/? Or other candidates will convince voters to make that change? Because......
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Common Sense wrote:
Rongone wrote:
I'll give Ted Cruz credit for being the closest real live representation of Damien Thorn that I have ever encountered.
Had no idea who Damien Thorn was so I googled it. Cruz is the Antichrist and the son of the devil? Drama.....
From Wikipedia:A Fictional CharacterDamien Thorn is a fictional character and the primary antagonist of The Omen series. He is the Antichrist and the son of the Devil.
Yeah. See . . . You're beginning to see it too ! ! !
In Omen III Damien uses his position and contacts to run for president and succeeds in seducing many of the voters with his serpentine smile and satanic promises of a better life.
Just like Ted Cruz . . . and Donald Trump . . . and Carly Fiorina . . . and . . . well, insert a name here.
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Rongone wrote:
Common Sense wrote:
Rongone wrote:
I'll give Ted Cruz credit for being the closest real live representation of Damien Thorn that I have ever encountered.
Had no idea who Damien Thorn was so I googled it. Cruz is the Antichrist and the son of the devil? Drama.....
From Wikipedia:A Fictional CharacterDamien Thorn is a fictional character and the primary antagonist of The Omen series. He is the Antichrist and the son of the Devil.
Yeah. See . . . You're beginning to see it too ! ! !
In Omen III Damien uses his position and contacts to run for president and succeeds in seducing many of the voters with his serpentine smile and satanic promises of a better life.
Just like Ted Cruz . . . and Donald Trump . . . and Carly Fiorina . . . and . . . well, insert a name here.
Sounds like a pefect description of Hillary Clinton to me
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It's gotten to the point where it's getting difficult to see a sudden collapse of the Trump campaign.
I mean what thing could he say, what group could he offend, that he hasn't already?
The worse he is the better he does.
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Rongone wrote:
Common Sense wrote:
Rongone wrote:
I'll give Ted Cruz credit for being the closest real live representation of Damien Thorn that I have ever encountered.
Had no idea who Damien Thorn was so I googled it. Cruz is the Antichrist and the son of the devil? Drama.....
From Wikipedia:A Fictional CharacterDamien Thorn is a fictional character and the primary antagonist of The Omen series. He is the Antichrist and the son of the Devil.
Yeah. See . . . You're beginning to see it too ! ! !
In Omen III Damien uses his position and contacts to run for president and succeeds in seducing many of the voters with his serpentine smile and satanic promises of a better life.
Just like Ted Cruz . . . and Donald Trump . . . and Carly Fiorina . . . and . . . well, insert a name here.
Hillary and King Obama? Probably most politicians.
Political language -- and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists -- is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind. George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language", 1946
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Common Sense wrote:
Rongone wrote:
Common Sense wrote:
Had no idea who Damien Thorn was so I googled it. Cruz is the Antichrist and the son of the devil? Drama.....
From Wikipedia:A Fictional CharacterDamien Thorn is a fictional character and the primary antagonist of The Omen series. He is the Antichrist and the son of the Devil.
Yeah. See . . . You're beginning to see it too ! ! !
In Omen III Damien uses his position and contacts to run for president and succeeds in seducing many of the voters with his serpentine smile and satanic promises of a better life.
Just like Ted Cruz . . . and Donald Trump . . . and Carly Fiorina . . . and . . . well, insert a name here.Hillary and King Obama? Probably most politicians.
Political language -- and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists -- is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind. George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language", 1946
Interesting that you quote George Orwell. I'm convinced that Orwell was a clairvoyant time traveler who was a keen observer who was able to translate language and action into real truth. His travels and experiences from Europe to Burma provided him with insights into different cultures and governments. From Animal Farm to 1984 I thoroughly enjoy his work. Some of my favorite lines he turned out: "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.". I carried that one with me during my Navy years. Another favorite of mine from Orwell: "All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from the people who are not fighting."
The guy was perceptive.