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5/08/2015 2:33 pm  #11


Re: 41 BILLION Short Fall for Public Pensions - PA

The Man wrote:

99% of the private sector doesn't offer defined pensions, or even a 401k match any longer, so I don't think the government would have a problem competing with the private sector if they got rid of guaranteed, defined pensions.

Are you sure about that number?
Not that it means anything but my 401 has an employer match, and I thought they were rather commonplace.
I don't have data on this, so I'm just asking you and the group.


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

5/08/2015 2:52 pm  #12


Re: 41 BILLION Short Fall for Public Pensions - PA

Goose wrote:

The Man wrote:

99% of the private sector doesn't offer defined pensions, or even a 401k match any longer, so I don't think the government would have a problem competing with the private sector if they got rid of guaranteed, defined pensions.

Are you sure about that number?
Not that it means anything but my 401 has an employer match, and I thought they were rather commonplace.
I don't have data on this, so I'm just asking you and the group.

 
Ok, I spoke out of my buttocks. 😀 😔 This is the most recent statistic that I could find (from 2011), and it was 42% that no longer offer a 401k match.  I imagine that number has grown since then?

Either way, I don't think the government would have difficulty competing with the private sector, even if they have to offer a small 401k match.

http://www.benefitspro.com/2013/05/02/fewer-employers-match-401k-contributions

Last edited by The Man (5/08/2015 2:59 pm)

 

5/08/2015 2:59 pm  #13


Re: 41 BILLION Short Fall for Public Pensions - PA

Thanks for taking the time to look that up and bring it here.

I think that the benefits for public sector people historically have been way more generous than what we in the private sector could get. So, paring those down as described above seems justified. 
I just don't want us to go overboard. I am supportive of making what changes are needed to get the salary and benefits to largely mirror each other with private v public.

Last edited by Goose (5/08/2015 3:00 pm)


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

5/08/2015 3:05 pm  #14


Re: 41 BILLION Short Fall for Public Pensions - PA

Goose wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to look that up and bring it here.

I think that the benefits for public sector people historically have been way more generous than what we in the private sector could get. So, paring those down as described above seems justified. 
I just don't want us to go overboard. I am supportive of making what changes are needed to get the salary and benefits to largely mirror each other with private v public.and benefits in public vs private.

 
Back in the day, from what I've been told, public sector jobs paid a lot less than private sector jobs, so they gave generous benefits to make up for the lack of pay, in order to attract good employees.  That seems to be no longer the case.  Public sector jobs now pay on-par with the private sector, if not more.  Just my own personal evidence, I'm a professional with well over 10 years of experience in a scientific field, and the average mail carrier in Pennsylvania makes about what I do.  I have nothing against mail carriers, or any public employee, but we can no longer say that they are paid way less than the private sector.

Last edited by The Man (5/08/2015 3:11 pm)

 

5/08/2015 3:19 pm  #15


Re: 41 BILLION Short Fall for Public Pensions - PA

The Man wrote:

Goose wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to look that up and bring it here.

I think that the benefits for public sector people historically have been way more generous than what we in the private sector could get. So, paring those down as described above seems justified. 
I just don't want us to go overboard. I am supportive of making what changes are needed to get the salary and benefits to largely mirror each other with private v public.and benefits in public vs private.

 
Back in the day, from what I've been told, public sector jobs paid a lot less than private sector jobs, so they gave generous benefits to make up for the lack of pay, in order to attract good employees. That seems to be no longer the case. Public sector jobs now pay on-par with the private sector, if not more. Just my own personal evidence, I'm a professional with well over 10 years of experience in a scientific field, and the average mail carrier in Pennsylvania makes about what I do. I have nothing against mail carriers, or any public employee, but we can no longer say that they are paid way less than the private sector.

I think that you are correct.
My Dad, who is now 81 worked for PennDOT most of his life in northern PA. He didn't earn as much as his private sector buddies in salary. But, he got two very good things. One was health insurance, which was a godsend as I have a brother who has been chronically ill since childhood. The other was a defined benefit pension plan that was way better than the private sector guys of that time had.
 


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

5/08/2015 3:21 pm  #16


Re: 41 BILLION Short Fall for Public Pensions - PA

The Man wrote:

Goose wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to look that up and bring it here.

I think that the benefits for public sector people historically have been way more generous than what we in the private sector could get. So, paring those down as described above seems justified. 
I just don't want us to go overboard. I am supportive of making what changes are needed to get the salary and benefits to largely mirror each other with private v public.and benefits in public vs private.

 
Back in the day, from what I've been told, public sector jobs paid a lot less than private sector jobs, so they gave generous benefits to make up for the lack of pay, in order to attract good employees.  That seems to be no longer the case.  Public sector jobs now pay on-par with the private sector, if not more.  Just my own personal evidence, I'm a professional with well over 10 years of experience in a scientific field, and the average mail carrier in Pennsylvania makes about what I do.  I have nothing against mail carriers, or any public employee, but we can no longer say that they are paid way less than the private sector.

 


I would basically agree with your premise about the sentiment to "catch up" the salaries and benefits of public sector jobs to equate them with private sector jobs "in order to attract good employees".

Unfortunately, that noble premise appears not to have attracted higher achievement by the attracted employees.

Last edited by Rongone (5/08/2015 3:21 pm)

 

5/08/2015 3:30 pm  #17


Re: 41 BILLION Short Fall for Public Pensions - PA

Rongone wrote:

The Man wrote:

Goose wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to look that up and bring it here.

I think that the benefits for public sector people historically have been way more generous than what we in the private sector could get. So, paring those down as described above seems justified. 
I just don't want us to go overboard. I am supportive of making what changes are needed to get the salary and benefits to largely mirror each other with private v public.and benefits in public vs private.

 
Back in the day, from what I've been told, public sector jobs paid a lot less than private sector jobs, so they gave generous benefits to make up for the lack of pay, in order to attract good employees.  That seems to be no longer the case.  Public sector jobs now pay on-par with the private sector, if not more.  Just my own personal evidence, I'm a professional with well over 10 years of experience in a scientific field, and the average mail carrier in Pennsylvania makes about what I do.  I have nothing against mail carriers, or any public employee, but we can no longer say that they are paid way less than the private sector.

 


I would basically agree with your premise about the sentiment to "catch up" the salaries and benefits of public sector jobs to equate them with private sector jobs "in order to attract good employees".

Unfortunately, that noble premise appears not to have attracted higher achievement by the attracted employees.

 
Well, I don't know.  I've personally never had a problem with a public employee.  All of them that I've dealt with seem to do their job ok, and have been courteous to me (including the state cop who issued me my first speeding ticket in 19 years two days ago 😔 ) .  I'm just saying, if I, and the majority of Pennsylvanians, have to fund our own retirements, so should they, because the pay discrepancy is no longer an issue.

Last edited by The Man (5/08/2015 3:31 pm)

 

5/08/2015 3:41 pm  #18


Re: 41 BILLION Short Fall for Public Pensions - PA

 

5/08/2015 4:04 pm  #19


Re: 41 BILLION Short Fall for Public Pensions - PA

 
😄 Sammy sings the truth.  I also still wonder, how do you know when it's love? I think that it's a feeling that lasts forever.

 

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