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11/05/2017 4:24 pm  #1


How Many Times

"And how many times can a man turn his head
And pretend that he just doesn't see - 
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind"



At least 27 dead and more than two dozen injured in Texas church shooting

At least 27 people were killed and around 27 injured in a Texas church shooting Sunday morning, law enforcement sources told ABC News.

The alleged shooter is dead, and it appears there is no longer an active threat at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, about 40 miles southeast of San Antonio, police told ABC News.
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One victim of the shooting is a 14-year-old girl, according to her father, Frank Pomeroy, who is pastor at the church.

Pomeroy spoke by phone to ABC News' Mike DelMoro.

Annabelle “was one very beautiful special child,” her father said.

Last edited by Goose (11/05/2017 4:33 pm)


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
 

11/06/2017 12:06 am  #2


Re: How Many Times

I'm sure our elected officials are going to be on it.  They'll send their thoughts and prayers.

 

11/06/2017 5:48 am  #3


Re: How Many Times

Trump says Texas shooting result of 'mental health problem' not US gun laws


Tokyo (CNN)President Donald Trump said Monday that he believes the Texas church shooting was caused by a "mental health problem," not an issue with gun laws in the United States.

"Mental health is your problem here," Trump said, noting that "based on preliminary reports" the shooter was "a very deranged individual."

"This isn't a guns situation," Trump said. "This is a mental health problem at the highest level. It's a very, very sad event."


Yea, it's a mental health problem, not a gun problem. So, why are we trying to get North Korea to give up nuclear weapons? I mean, it's not an A-bomb issue. It's a mental health issue.

 Question:
If you had a mentally unstable person staying with you, would you allow them to walk around your house with a loaded semi-automatic weapon while you waited for them to get well?
I'm betting that none of us would.


You know, I used to scoff at those people who lamented that America has lost it's greatness.
But, they are right.
The nation that took down Hitler, the nation that vowed to "Bear any burden" to defend liberty from communism, the nation that put men on the moon is done.
We endure a mass shooting nearly every month. Our Sisters and brothers, our children are massacred in the Street, the movie theater, at school, and in Church.
And we do NOTHING.
We shrug our shoulders and decide that we will live with this rather than even try to do something.
Shame!

Last edited by Goose (11/06/2017 6:19 am)


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
     Thread Starter
 

11/06/2017 6:12 am  #4


Re: How Many Times

8 die in a terrorist attack in NYC, and in less than 24 hours the President is calling for legislation to address it.

26 die in Texas, 58 in Las Vegas, and we get this robotic "Thoughts and Prayers", "mental health", "nothing you can do".


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
     Thread Starter
 

11/06/2017 7:49 am  #5


Re: How Many Times

Goose wrote:

Trump says Texas shooting result of 'mental health problem' not US gun laws


Tokyo (CNN)President Donald Trump said Monday that he believes the Texas church shooting was caused by a "mental health problem," not an issue with gun laws in the United States.

"Mental health is your problem here," Trump said, noting that "based on preliminary reports" the shooter was "a very deranged individual."

"This isn't a guns situation," Trump said. "This is a mental health problem at the highest level. It's a very, very sad event."


Yea, it's a mental health problem, not a gun problem. So, why are we trying to get North Korea to give up nuclear weapons? I mean, it's not an A-bomb issue. It's a mental health issue.

 Question:
If you had a mentally unstable person staying with you, would you allow them to walk around your house with a loaded semi-automatic weapon while you waited for them to get well?
I'm betting that none of us would.


You know, I used to scoff at those people who lamented that America has lost it's greatness.
But, they are right.
The nation that took down Hitler, the nation that vowed to "Bear any burden" to defend liberty from communism, the nation that put men on the moon is done.
We endure a mass shooting nearly every month. Our Sisters and brothers, our children are massacred in the Street, the movie theater, at school, and in Church.
And we do NOTHING.
We shrug our shoulders and decide that we will live with this rather than even try to do something.
Shame!

Well, then Mr Trump, YOU yourself helped the VERY SAME people to now be able to buy guns !
 

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-set-overturn-guns-mental-health-regulation-557237

 

Last edited by tennyson (11/06/2017 7:50 am)


"Do not confuse motion and progress, A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress"
 
 

11/06/2017 7:55 am  #6


Re: How Many Times

Interesting that Trump signed an executive order that overturned an Obama executive order that curtailed the ability of mentally unstable people from getting a gun.

But hey, it's too soon talk about tougher gun regulation, right?

 

11/06/2017 9:07 am  #7


Re: How Many Times

We have decided that it is acceptable to have monthly mass killings of our citizens.

Can you imagine, on 9/12/2001 someone saying, well if a crazy or evil person really wants to take control of an airliner, they will find a way to do so. And, you don't want to punish law abiding travelers,,,,
So, let's do nothing,,,,,,,,,,
Can you?

Last edited by Goose (11/06/2017 9:09 am)


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
     Thread Starter
 

11/06/2017 9:50 am  #8


Re: How Many Times

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton has the answer . . . We should arm churchgoers. Or, at least, have armed security guards at the doors of the church.

With apologies to Janis Joplin:

Oh Lord won’t you buy me an AR-15.
My friends all have pistols
But deep in their dreams
They all want a rifle
That fires in streams
Oh Lord won’t you buy me an AR-15

Congregations should be armed, Texas attorney general says after church shooting

Lois Beckett, Guardian

Texas: Hours after a mass shooting that left at least 26 people dead, the Texas attorney general said American churches should be “arming some of the parishioners” or hiring “professional security”.
“It’s going to happen again,” the state attorney general, Republican Ken Paxton, told Fox News in an interview hours after the shooting at Sutherland Springs First Baptist Church in Texas, which claimed victims as young as five and as old as 72.


If more church-goers were armed “there’s always the opportunity that the gunman will be taken out before he has the opportunity to kill very many people,” Paxton said.

As America’s mass shootings grow deadlier and more frequent, and Republicans like Paxton continue to block any new federal gun control laws, churches, schools and workplaces are devising security plans for responding to an armed attacker.

Just two months ago, a new Texas law went into effect to make it easier for churches to use armed members of their congregations to provide security.

American gun right advocates point to the example of Jeanne Assam, who intervened in a mass shooting at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs in December 2007, shooting the perpetrator several times before he shot himself, ending the attack.

Assam, who had professional training as a police officer, was officially providing security for her church that day. Two teenage sisters were killed and several others wounded. The attacker had reportedly been carrying more than a thousand rounds of ammunition.

In September 2017, a member of the congregation at the Burnette Chapel Church of Christ in Antioch, Tennessee, was hailed as a hero for physically confronting a gunman who opened fire in church, then reportedly getting a gun from his car and holding him at gunpoint. One woman died and seven others were injured in the attack.

“We’ve had shootings in churches for, you know, for forever. It’s going to happen again, and so we need people in churches, professional security or at least arming some of the parishioner or the congregation so they can respond if something like this — when something like this happens again,” the Texas attorney general said on Sunday.

A Fox anchor questioned how comfortable many people might be with carrying a weapon in church. “The concept of a firearm and a church” are “two potentially diametrically opposed concepts, when you’re there praying to the Lord,” Fox’s Eric Shawn said.

“There’s no doubt,” Paxton said. “I think that’s why so many people don’t carry in a church.”
Under state law, Texans have long be allowed to carry a concealed weapon in houses of worship, as long as the house of worship does not specifically forbid it, according to Laura Cutilletta, the legal director of the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

Some churches responded to the Texas open carry law by more proactively banning gun carrying in church, which the law allows individual houses of worship to do.

“We’ve noticed that Baptist churches vary all across the spectrum in the options they are choosing,” John Litzler, legal consultant with the Baptist General Convention of Texas, told Baptist News Global in early 2016, as the new open carry law went into effect.

Proponents of providing armed security for Sunday services in churches across the country often argue that tightening America’s extremely permissive gun control laws would not help prevent violence. In Texas, for example, one private citizen can legally sell a gun to another without conducting any background check to confirm they are not prohibited from owning guns.

“I wish some law would fix all of this,” Paxton said on Fox News Sunday, calling the shooting a horrifying tragedy, particularly because some of the victims were children. “You can’t necessarily keep guns out of the hands of people who are going to violate the law.”

 

11/06/2017 10:23 am  #9


Re: How Many Times

Two of the biggest mass shootings in U.S. history occurred 35 days apart.

In the church shooting yesterday, 14 of the dead were children. Add that to the 20 children that were killed in Newtown.

Remember how shocked we all were at the Columbine? After yesterday, Columbine drops off the top 10 list of America's worst gun massacres.

And yet the gun lobby and their defenders today are pulling out the same old tropes. 

Better we live in a country where you are encouraged to take a gun to church, then to make the tough decisions on what kinds of weapons a civilized society should have access to.

Our president says this is a mental health issue and not a gun issue.

Yet, his primary goal since he was sworn into office was to make it more difficult for people to find and afford the insurance they may need to keep the mental health issues they have in check.

Our country is in a bad way, man. And I don't see it getting better any time soon.


I think you're going to see a lot of different United States of America over the next three, four, or eight years. - President Donald J. Trump
 

11/06/2017 12:40 pm  #10


Re: How Many Times

TheLagerLad wrote:

Two of the biggest mass shootings in U.S. history occurred 35 days apart.

In the church shooting yesterday, 14 of the dead were children. Add that to the 20 children that were killed in Newtown.

Remember how shocked we all were at the Columbine? After yesterday, Columbine drops off the top 10 list of America's worst gun massacres.

And yet the gun lobby and their defenders today are pulling out the same old tropes. 

Better we live in a country where you are encouraged to take a gun to church, then to make the tough decisions on what kinds of weapons a civilized society should have access to.

Our president says this is a mental health issue and not a gun issue.

Yet, his primary goal since he was sworn into office was to make it more difficult for people to find and afford the insurance they may need to keep the mental health issues they have in check.

Our country is in a bad way, man. And I don't see it getting better any time soon.

I must, with great sadness, agree. I've lost my sense of optimism for this nation. And that is saying a lot. I've always believed in the future. I 've always believed that we could solve our problems, reach a better place. While the solutions to human rights abuse, violence, poverty, climate change, terrorism, may have eluded others, and other generations, no matter.
America would address them. We would work harder for the common good, reach higher,,,,, and one fine day,,,,,,,

Now, I believe that what I was grasping for is already behind me.
Lost.
irretrievably lost.

 

Last edited by Goose (11/06/2017 12:46 pm)


We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists. 
     Thread Starter
 

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