1 - Goose
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What About Iran
Much has been made about the politics of the Netanyahu visit. But, one should not lose sight of the fact that President Obama and Netanyahu have a substantial disagreement about how to deal with Iran and it's possible nuclear ambitions.
How do you think we should approach Iran?
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
- Goose
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Re: What About Iran
From today's NYT.
"Mr. Obama has repeated a seemingly simple vow: On his watch, the United States would do whatever it took to “prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon.” Mr. Netanyahu has used a different set of stock phrases. Iran had to be stopped from getting the “capability” to manufacture a weapon, he said, and Israel could never tolerate an Iran that was a “threshold nuclear state.”
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
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Thread Starter- Just Fred
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Re: What About Iran
I do not trust Mr. Netanyahu. I get the impression he is concerned more about saving his own butt as he faces a tight re-election campaign and he's using 'fear' as a political tool.
As far as coming here on an invitation from John Boehner, I do not believe for one minute that he did not know what was going to be the result. Are we to assume that Netanyahu speaks for all Israeli people? Hardly, since his opponent is within a few percentage points with the election on the horizon. I simply don't trust this guy coming over here and telling us what needs to be done and how to approach the situation with Iran.
Secondly, it seems we have two choices: Either negoitiate with the Iranians or go to war with them to save Israel (read Netanyahu). We've already witnessed the fruits of what happens with regime change when we've leaped into a Middle East conflict. And so, we replace the Iranian regime with what?
Hypotherical to consider - How do you think it would have been received by a Republican administration if a Democratic congress would have invited the president of France to come over here, address congress, and tell us what needs to be done with Afghanistan or Iraq? Remember that 'freedom fries' stuff?
Last edited by Just Fred (3/03/2015 12:30 pm)
- Goose
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Re: What About Iran
The big problems with Netanyahu's stance is that it would require dismantling all of Iran's nuclear facilities. This they will never consent to. So, we would have to coerce the Iramians to do so with either force or more sanctions.
If t came to war, the US would do most of the heavy lifting. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.
Another premeptive war in the Middle East?
Also, Iran is a signatory of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty, which gives them the right to enrich some uranium for peaceful use. Are we going to violate an international treaty? So, much for the rule of law.
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
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Thread Starter- BYOB
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Re: What About Iran
I'm on the same page as Fred on this. While Netanyahu has every right to speak up for the people of Israel, he is seriously getting annoying. He's going about it the wrong way.
To answer Fred's hypothetical - It wouldn't fly. Not even a smidgeon.
Last edited by BYOB (3/03/2015 12:47 pm)
- TheLagerLad
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Re: What About Iran
Tell ya what -- I listened to Netanyahu's speech via the radio earlier today and to be honest, I was buying what he was selling.
In a lot of ways, he made a solid case for ridding the world of all nuclear weapons.
I should note that I really find it distasteful that our Congress is barking and clapping like seals for a foreign leader in our legislative hall. They can be polite and respectful, but you woudl have thought Congress was a bunch of teenagers at a Taylor Swift concert that way they were hooting and hollering.
I kind of feel like now Obama needs to come out and do a nationally televised speech on why making a deal with Iran on nukes is a good idea. Cause as of right now, based on what I have heard, I'm on Bibi's side.
I think you're going to see a lot of different United States of America over the next three, four, or eight years. - President Donald J. Trump
- Goose
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Re: What About Iran
Let me ask you, Lager, besides not signing a deal with Iran, what practical course is Bibi selling?
We live in a time in which decent and otherwise sensible people are surrendering too easily to the hectoring of morons or extremists.
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Thread Starter- BYOB
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Re: What About Iran
Hence why he's a politician. I agree that no nukes the world over is a great idea, however, I also know that as far as Iran goes, in my experiences, if you constantly tell someone they're no good, they tend to live up to expectations. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like with Iran we've done everything there is to do except war or talking and listening. I'm game for trying talking and listening for a bit. Maybe I'm naieve, but what are the other alternatives?
I was hoping that the congress members that went to Netanyahu's speech would act like, well, adult congress members that represent the U.S.. I guess we can add this to the adoration list along with Putin and the rest. 
Last edited by BYOB (3/03/2015 2:39 pm)
- TheLagerLad
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Re: What About Iran
Goose wrote:
Let me ask you, Lager, besides not signing a deal with Iran, what practical course is Bibi selling?
The practical course he is taking is to simply eliminate Iran's nuclear capabilities. And proof that Iran is moving towards tolerance and some semblance of if nothing else, increased freedoms.
I thought this was a very poignant part of Netanyahu's words...
Now, two years ago, we were told to give President Rouhani and Foreign Minister Zarif a chance to bring change and moderation to Iran. Some change! Some moderation!
Rouhani's government hangs gays, persecutes Christians, jails journalists and executes even more prisoners than before.
Last year, the same Zarif who charms Western diplomats laid a wreath at the grave of Imad Mughniyeh. Imad Mughniyeh is the terrorist mastermind who spilled more American blood than any other terrorist besides Osama bin Laden. I'd like to see someone ask him a question about that.
Iran's regime is as radical as ever, its cries of "Death to America," that same America that it calls the "Great Satan," as loud as ever.
Now, this shouldn't be surprising, because the ideology of Iran's revolutionary regime is deeply rooted in militant Islam, and that's why this regime will always be an enemy of America.
Don't be fooled. The battle between Iran and ISIS doesn't turn Iran into a friend of America.
Iran and ISIS are competing for the crown of militant Islam. One calls itself the Islamic Republic. The other calls itself the Islamic State. Both want to impose a militant Islamic empire first on the region and then on the entire world. They just disagree among themselves who will be the ruler of that empire.
In this deadly game of thrones, there's no place for America or for Israel, no peace for Christians, Jews or Muslims who don't share the Islamist medieval creed, no rights for women, no freedom for anyone.
So when it comes to Iran and ISIS, the enemy of your enemy is your enemy.
I think there is a lot of truth to that. Granted, there is a lot of moderation among the young people of Iran. Look no farther back that the Green Revolution. But they are not in power yet. And they may never be. So the question is, if you draw a dotted line between the leadership of Iran and the Islamic State, do you really want them to have a nuclear bomb?
And listen, I know the U.S. doesn't want Iran to have a bomb either. But are we pushing the issue enough and are we putting safeguards in place to ensure the Iranians aren't going to continue to build nukes after the negotiations are over.
I think you're going to see a lot of different United States of America over the next three, four, or eight years. - President Donald J. Trump
- BYOB
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Re: What About Iran
I would also like the President to give a speech on his goals with Iran.
Netanyahu may have some decent points, but...........says the guy who seemed to have no qualms about killing a whole lot of Palestinian children. I feel like I can't totally trust him, and that is a problem for me.